Stratocaster pickup in my archtop

[rpjazzguitar]

One thing I have learned (and I think might be true) is that the tone is sharper when the pickup senses the string in a narrow way. That is, a humbucker is wide so it's reacting to a greater length of string than a single coil, which is narrower. And, when you use the neck/middle setting, the hum goes away (because the two coils an make a humbucker, if wired for that) and the sound gets less sharp, or trebly. Maybe that's the interaction of the two coils and maybe it's the way the string is sensed. I'm not sure about that.

But it does bring up some additional possibilities. If you lower the pick up and raise the pole pieces, it shortens the length of string being sensed and the guitar sounds more trebly. You may or may not like the sound, but it's very easy to try it.

And, if you get a humbucker in a strat size like a Duncan Lil 59, it doesn't sound like a wider humbucker.

Or, whoever told me all of this was wrong.

But, have tried the polepiece adjustment and it does change the sound.

[p1p]

I'll definitely post clips if I go through with this. For now, I've removed the screw pole pieces from the humbucker.. sounds OK. Quite a change actually, and almost usable for me, but really just sounds like a brighter humbucker if that's possible.

[Cunamara]

Thanks for the input everyone, I couldn't be more on the fence at the mo

It's pretty easy to do and reversible if you don't like it. Pickup, mounting system, 250k pots and appropriate cap. Heck, you can even just disconnect the bridge pickup in the process and not worry about it. Might cost you $50 to do and some hours, but you will learn something almost know one else knows.

If it's close but no cigar, Pete Biltoft makes great Charlie Christian and P-90 pickups in a humbucker form factor, which will drop right in with those 250k pots and cap. Huge, fat single coil tones.

[sgosnell]

One thing to be aware of is that the polepiece spacing on a Strat pickup is different from most humbuckers. You may have to change the string spacing on the Ibanez to match the Strat pickup. That's easy enough to do with a wooden saddle, not so easy with a TOM saddle, although not impossible with the proper files and time.

[Legg's Lane]

I have a 1973 Guild X500 with a strat pickup added in the 'middle' position and an extra switch that allows the same combinations as on a strat. I also am not great with humbuckers, I don't use a pick, but the strat pickup sounds good either on its own or with the neck humbucker (both humbuckers have been changed to Classic 57s, in fact the whole guitar has been Gibson-ised). The strat pickup is a Bareknuckle '63 I had spare. The range of tones is greatly increased as a result. The guitar came to me already un-Guilded and a hole in the middle position, in case you wonder how I could have done such a thing. Best jazz box I've ever had.

[Woody Sound]

It's worth a try, you might like it. You can always revert.

[Woody Sound]

What do you think about putting a double/single coil switch on a humbucker? Not quite the same because of the magnets but close and versatile.

I *think* a split humbucker is weaker than an original single coil. But I'm not sure.

[Robertkoa]

Hoping to get some opinions/advice on mounting a strat single coil neck pickup in my archtop. Anyone here ever done this? I'm very curious about the tone. I would have to use humbucker adapter rings like this:

Humbucker Rout adapter ring- Fits Strat pickup- Straight- THREE COLORS

Basically, I want a single coil tone - humbuckers just not for me - and happen to have a good strat pickup available. If it's a terrible idea I'll just wait until I can afford a humbucker sized p90 or something..

Cheers

I like to have coil cut switches and even if I get some type of Archtop it will have single coil Modes. ( I inquired about a possible Seventy Seven Jazz Hawk wired this way ).

I like to have Humbucker and Single Coil Tones on deeper more resonant Guitars than ....errr overrated Fender Models .lol

I like Humbucking and Single Coil Tones for different things.
Long ago I had as ES 347 that had coil cuts stock - not to imitate a Strat but to get a Stringier 347 Tone and for more transparent 5 and 6 Note Chords etc.

If I were you and you dislike Humbucker Tones you can have a PAF Type Humbucker that goes from Parallel ( kind of P90 ish - not exactly - to single Coil .

IF you want a full fledged Single Coil with Alnico rod magnets ( tighter magnetic field= snappier Tone ) - you can buy a Duncan Stag Mag which is 2 Strat Pickups side by side as a Humbucker and wire that for Parallel and Single Coil and you will have 2 different bright Tones for neck Position ( or 1 with no switch ) without installing new hardware.

Duncan will also do custom winds if you have a good idea of what you want.

Lindy Fralin has a Pickup called an Unbucker that cuts to a punchy single coil sound also ( Humbucker to Single Coil ).

Or again Parallel to Single Coil .

[Herbie]

I think that it is a good idea and worth testing.

Lollar has invented the tele’s bridge pickup for humbucker users. Looks like fun:



http://www.lollarguitars.com/lollar-other-single-coil-pickups/novel-t-bridge

[neatomic]

the problem with traditional split humbucker coil switching is that it dramatically changes volume...and tone!!..cutting one coil ie. the resistance of a humbucker in half does not necessarily make a good single coil tone!!

the latest trend has been to building a humbucker with an extra boost wrap on one coil..so that when the humbucker is split..it also kicks in the boost coil so that the single coil has enough volume to still sound good ...

switching back to humbucker mode, ads the coil but not the booster!!

ingenious!

prs and a few other makers are now using this tech

cheers

[Robertkoa]

Yes Neatomic - good call...the Fralin Unbucker does that so I think it's maybe 10 or 11k in Humbucker mode but in Single Coil you get about 7.5 or 8k and he will overwind or underwind- haven't tried one yet.

I also don't mind if the Single Coil Mode is duller than a ' Strat ' single - I really don't like bright Guitars.

So instead of half a humbucker you end up with 70% to 80% somehow in single coil mode.

[Broadway]

Hello. I cut my teeth Guitar building with Strats. Simple set ups, easy wiring and so on. What you are going to run into is your potentiometers and your capacitors. On a humbucket set up, the pots are 500k to get a usable brighter tone and the cap (I believe) is a .022 (or is it a .047?) anyway, the strat uses the OTHER cap and 250K potentiometer. Now when you combine the two, you buy the “matched” set meaning they are set up depending on the pots and pups you plan on using. Now... unless you know what you are doing with soldering, you can get a pre wired set up.

No as easy as drop in and playing, right? Also if you do it, don’t cannibalize your Strat, buy a pickup from GFS for pocket change. Or heck, I have a drawer full of pickups from swaps and builds!

Anyway. Good luck and post clips!!

[Broadway]

Yes Neatomic - good call...the Fralin Unbucker does that so I think it's maybe 10 or 11k in Humbucker mode but in Single Coil you get about 7.5 or 8k and he will overwind or underwind- haven't tried one yet.

I also don't mind if the Single Coil Mode is duller than a ' Strat ' single - I really don't like bright Guitars.

So instead of half a humbucker you end up with 70% to 80% somehow in single coil mode.

Typical strat single coils are wound “hot” at 8k. And the reason is to compensate for the pots and caps. If you took an 8k pup and wired it in a strat set up, you’ll get a super bright quack and it won’t muddy out with the knob as much as a humbucker would.

[p1p]

Hello. I cut my teeth Guitar building with Strats. Simple set ups, easy wiring and so on. What you are going to run into is your potentiometers and your capacitors. On a humbucket set up, the pots are 500k to get a usable brighter tone and the cap (I believe) is a .022 (or is it a .047?) anyway, the strat uses the OTHER cap and 250K potentiometer. Now when you combine the two, you buy the “matched” set meaning they are set up depending on the pots and pups you plan on using. Now... unless you know what you are doing with soldering, you can get a pre wired set up.

No as easy as drop in and playing, right? Also if you do it, don’t cannibalize your Strat, buy a pickup from GFS for pocket change. Or heck, I have a drawer full of pickups from swaps and builds!

Anyway. Good luck and post clips!!

Yeah I realize the pots and caps would have to change, but I do have the strat parts kicking about (the neck on the strat permanently twisted, and I don't plan on bringing er back to life).

I haven't seen this done before, so I'm now starting to second guess it - there must be a good reason? BUT I do really like the sound of a McCarty floating pickup, and curious to how close a strat single coil would be to that. Any thoughts?

[sgosnell]

Properly wired, a humbucker's tone doesn't change perceptibly when the volume is rolled off. I can set the volume on my Benedettos anywhere from off to max, and the tone stays the same, just a change in volume. They use 500k pots and a .022 cap. Gibsons, OTOH, change tone considerably when the volume is backed off. It's an ancient wiring scheme, which some people seem to prefer, because they can use the volume control as a tone control. I prefer to use the tone control as the tone control, and volume as just volume.

[sgosnell]

Strat pickups tend to be rather tall, so be sure to check for adequate clearance under the strings before you do anything drastic. And remember that the polepieces are the magnets, and if they get close to the strings the tone will suffer.

[Robertkoa]

Just personally - if I order an Archtop with Single Coil switches it's to {sometimes } sound like a ' stringier ' Archtop not to sound like a Strat ...virgin new territory ...and I definitely don't want all that edgy brightness that I need to tamp down....either in the Guitar itself ( if possible ) nor the electronics.

I had an ES 347 long ago with stock coil cuts - and it sounded cool that way and not overly bright I wasn't
trying to cop exact Strat Tones but a different but cool sound.

But that's just me....

[Broadway]

If you are looking to unload that strat body and neck, let me know. I’m always messing around with new projectsa and trying different things. I’d like to try to straighten twisted neck and if it doesn’t work, I can always use it as a test neck
for refretting processes.

[p1p]

If you are looking to unload that strat body and neck, let me know. I’m always messing around with new projectsa and trying different things. I’d like to try to straighten twisted neck and if it doesn’t work, I can always use it as a test neck
for refretting processes.

I would, but I'm in the UK, so might be more trouble than it's worth.

I'm going to see if the single coil will fit in the humbucker ring without the GFS adapter thing first. This way I can hear what it sounds like tonight, and if I like it I can order the adapter ring as a permanent fitting for it.

Here goes...

[p1p]

For those interested, I've put the strat pickup in the Ibanez AF75, and actually very, very pleased!

Unfortunately the D string snapped tuning back up, so I couldn't play fully, but happy with the tone on the rest of the strings. Now to order a few sets of new strings, the adapter to cover the gaps around the single coil, and I'll be good to go. Will post sound clips. I did also re-use the 500k pots, and used a .1 uF "vintage" tone cap I had. The guitar has come to life in my opinion, and so many more usable tones available to me now with the Vol and Tone knobs.

Clearly I just can't live with humbuckers..

[Herbie]

Properly wired, a humbucker's tone doesn't change perceptibly when the volume is rolled off. I can set the volume on my Benedettos anywhere from off to max, and the tone stays the same, just a change in volume. They use 500k pots and a .022 cap. Gibsons, OTOH, change tone considerably when the volume is backed off. It's an ancient wiring scheme, which some people seem to prefer, because they can use the volume control as a tone control. I prefer to use the tone control as the tone control, and volume as just volume.

Could You specify this, for example with diagrams of both?

I have understood that Gibson used ”originally” a wiring (now called as ’50’s wiring’) that did not darken the sound with the volume drop as much as their ’modern wiring’.

[sgosnell]

All I have handy is the single pickup version, but it should be the same past the selector switch. Gibson wiring diagrams are readily available on the internet. This is the Benedetto diagram.

[cosmic gumbo]

Could You specify this, for example with diagrams of both?

I have understood that Gibson used ”originally” a wiring (now called as ’50’s wiring’) that did not darken the sound with the volume drop as much as their ’modern wiring’.

Someone posted this link recently in another thread that may answer your questions.

50s Vs Modern Les Paul Wiring | Seymour Duncan

[Herbie]

All I have handy is the single pickup version, but it should be the same past the selector switch. Gibson wiring diagrams are readily available on the internet. This is the Benedetto diagram.

Someone posted this link recently in another thread that may answer your questions.

Thanks sgosnell for the diagram! I have been so deep in Les Paul world that I have thought that the '50's wiring' (my favourite) and the 'Modern wiring' are only way to connect the tone cap with the tone pot. But as these photos show, there is other possibilities.

The Benedetto is connected more like tone pot in Strat.

If the electricity works with archtops were easier I would test the Benedetto way at once to my 1 pu ES175!

Benedetto wiring:


Strat wiring:


'Gibson 50s wiring':


'Gibson Modern'



Telecaster 'Modern' wiring

[Thumpalumpacus]

What do you think about putting a double/single coil switch on a humbucker? Not quite the same because of the magnets but close and versatile.

Probably won't give satisfactory results, because each humbucker bobbin carries less copper than a standard single-coil pickup.