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From a corporate POV, this makes no sense.
Originally Posted by jzucker
They're going to a smaller, more efficient factory, and most probably in Memphis, too.
They'll let some go, but the hardcore of the workforce resides in there, so I don't think they'll risk losing'em, as they sorely NEED'EM.
YMMV.
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10-27-2017 09:29 AM
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Why? Fender is doing this. Originally Posted by LtKojak
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Gibson is motoring down the middle of the lake with the drain plugs out, trying to shed the water they've taken on. Problem is, someone's thrown all the plugs overboard. If they stop or slow down, they will take on more water than they've run off. Augh!
And, there's an underwater cable called senior debt maturity that's about to sheer off the lower unit of the outboard, if they are not careful.
Bon voyage, HJ.
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They may do what Fibonacci is doing.
Getting the body carved and the neck made by i think Japanese luthiers to a high standard then shipping to the factory for fitment finish hardware etc.
Fib are doing this and saying they are made in London.
Gibson could easily cope with this in a smaller set-up and give a fantastic quality product as the end result.
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My understanding is that Fender is doing it with one-off custom shop pieces. That's not the same a replacing a guitar factory. Originally Posted by jzucker
I'm not sure why everyone is guessing they're going overseas....I think if they were going to do that, they'd just shut down all three factories. With soft sales, this closure makes sense to me; something I'm not used to seeing from Gibson management.
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Harley-Davidson has been using parts made in Japan for decades and now even uses parts made in China. Gibson may at some point enter into the murky world of stamping "made in USA" on guitars that contain a significant percentage of foreign parts. Originally Posted by customxke
As for outsourcing, why not hire a great luthier to make L-5's and Super 400's? It would benefit all concerned. The luthier would get work at probably the same rate as his/her own guitars bring, Gibson would make more profit (no benefits need be paid to an independent contractor, nor would UI taxes or workers comp fees need to be paid) and the buyer would get a Gibson made by a fine luthier. Win-Win? You bet.
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Originally Posted by LtKojak
They wouldn't be the first major corporation to (stupidly) dump the older experienced staff because they get paid more and like a big three letter company I worked for older staff coming up on retirement. The top of big corporations only look at profits and appeasing stockholders, most who know nothing about the industries involved. That was one of my biggest gripes about working in the corporate world once someone reaches a certain level they are consider they can do that job in any industry. No they need to understand the industry and it's customers to make intelligent decision for the long time, not to just booth numbers for a quarter.
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docbop,
That's the modern way, I'm afraid. Anyway, Gibson has already been down this road--when they dumped the experienced staff (i.e., made deals with them that caused them to say, "no, we'll stay in Kalamazoo...thanks."
I declare, Gibson seems to me to be in the position that Fender was in back in 1983--except that the market for musical instruments is overall in poorer shape now. Fender ended up being sold for lunch money to a group of aficionados, moved to Corona, and...well...it sort of has worked out.
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Where ever the next owners say they'll build.
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Well, as Leo once said- you can buy a Fender made from American parts in America by Mexicans, or you can buy a Fender made from American parts in Mexico by Mexicans. The primary difference is the cost of labor. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
But I agree with Stringswinger that the Gibson brand is rooted in the "Made In America" ethos and they would move that out of the US at their peril. Although maybe nobody would really care so long as they can buy a new flamey Gibson Les Paul Standard for $1500 instead of $3000 or whatever it is. Low prices for consumer goods will step around scruples almost every time.
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If we're looking at Gretsch as an example .. there top of the line gear is still made in the states ... and it is darn nice stuff
That said .. I would prefer Gibson stay stateside, even if it means limited production to maintain the preferred branding and keep up the quality
Whatever they do .. stick with some type of lacquer .
Lacquer may not really have anything to do with tone or mojo ...
but to me a big part of what makes a good Gibson work for me is the feel and I think a big part of that is the finishes they use
I'm not convinced selling the current Memphis plant is the bell tolling the doom of Gibson ... but I will be surprised if they keep their promise to maintain production in the Memphis area
Apparently Gibson already does some outsourcing occasionally, as do the other guitar companies.... mainly for advanced artistic inlays and custom orders .. especially for important customers ... as well as occasional contracts with top independent luthiers for consulting
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you might be surprised if you compared the lacquers of yesterday to what they are using today. Today's lacquers (at least the ones gibson is using) have polymers in them and are much harder than vintage lacquer. Many luthiers have stated that polyurethane actually breathes better than today's lacquers.
Originally Posted by Bluedawg
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If they did off-shore production, everyone would immediately say it's worse, even if it's not. Then, when they off-shore to a different country, everyone would then say that the first off-shored production was the best, ad infinitum. Japan is the new Memphis, Korea's the New Japan, China's the new Korea, Indonesia's the new China ... Eventually people's perception of each country's quality/production will come full circle after touching every country on the globe, and we'll be saying, the US is the new Zimbabwe ... Originally Posted by Cunamara
JohnLast edited by John A.; 10-27-2017 at 05:35 PM.
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Yeah ... I'm guessing you're right ... Originally Posted by jzucker
It's probably all in my head ... but one of the reasons I keep loving my Gibsons is how they feel in my hands ..
And very few makers come close to feeling like a Gibson ...
Not to say that I think Gibson makes better guitars than anyone else, but that I love how they feel
I love plenty of other brands as much or more ... but I still love the feel of a Gibbie
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You're not alone. I've a thing, preference, for nitro finished archtop's - period. Nitro finishes allow me to bond better with the guitar, instead of saying to myself, "if only this guitar had a nitro finish." But there's a definite difference, and feel, from even late 90's Gibson's and those made after 2008 or so. Originally Posted by Bluedawg
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Plenty of Gibson content is not made in or from the USA. The tuners, tune-o-matic bridges and stop/wrap tailpieces come from China. Most likely the knobs as well. The mahogany, rosewood and ebony are all imported. I wonder who makes the strap buttons? Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Last edited by Hammertone; 10-29-2017 at 12:57 AM.
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Originally Posted by Hammertone
and that's true for mosts the things we buy today. People don't realize "Made in USA" only means finally assembly done in the US. So everything is made as units all over the world and shipped to the US. Then those units get screwed or glued together in the US and they can say "Made in USA". Nothing is what it seems anymore.
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Not quite. Originally Posted by docbop
Here is the law:
Complying with the Made in USA Standard | Federal Trade Commission
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Blue dawg,
nice!
You are more we’ll liked than me around here. Last time I said this, I never heard the end of it.. Especially from those crazy Benedetto people!!!
And I agree whole heartedly with what you are saying!
Joe D
Originally Posted by Bluedawg
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Yeah, i dunno about that. I have a 77 Hawk Jazz which is basically like a 175 but with 5pc maple neck and ebony fingerboard. It feels just as good as my '89 gibson 175. I assume the hawk is poly and the '89 175 probably didn't have the polymers that they're using today. They both sound equally good. Quality control on the 77 blows away anything gibson has been doing since the early '60s and the neck on the hawk feels amazing. Just the right thickness...
Originally Posted by Bluedawg
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What is impressive with Gibson even the modern ones, is they keep selling more than anything that might blow them away!
Perceptions are stronger than rational; build quality and QC seem to be secondary to branding and where it is made.
If it would not be the case, people would all play Orville, Fernandes, 77, Matsumoku and Terada made copies and so on...
I expect outsourcing to create a demand for pre outsourcing instruments, even more if that future outsourcing occurs out of USA, so those CME deals as imperfect as they can be, might retain or even increase in value.
There is less and less naturally aged tone wood as overrated or not as it can be .
Only time will tell how the already saturated market will deal with that on the long run.
With that said, I am just happy those deals are so far only on 24.75 scale instruments and not on anything Custom Shop, makes it easier to resist for me...but still a nice 175 for 2500$...
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Marketing is fascinating stuff. People drink Coke and Pepsi in large measure due to the packaging and ads. Most folks cannot tell which one they're drinking without looking.
Same with guitars. I have played a zillion. A typical Nash plays and sounds better than a recent Fender. Some of the MIJ Gibson tributes...same thing.
Ah, but people see the logo...
(In each case, the Custom Shops whup the competition. Crimson guitars are awesome.)
Fire away, guys.
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Gibson Guitar Factory Looking For New Home - Memphis Daily News
They are staying in Memphis, according to this article.
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Originally Posted by Greentone
It is very interesting I spent a couple years working as a Product Manager but got tired of washing the slime off. The one Marketing job I liked was being a technical evangelist dealing directly with user groups and customers and helping them solve problems. What really funny is how users/customer believe all the media crap how company A hates company B and product wars, while behind the scenes everyone actually gets along great and hang out together. All part of the Marketing game to get more media coverage. Of my favorite product leaks covered by the media. Most of those are planned leaks given to the media and people's reactions are monitored to decide things like features people are interested in, pricing, and other data. Marketing really plays with people's minds.
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While packaging, advertising, price, positioning and other components of the marketing mix are important, product remains at the core. While some advances may have been made in the past few years, and there are many variations on the secondary aspects of the cola formula (sweeter, less sweet, no calories, low calories, caffeine, no caffeine, added flavours, etceteras), at the end of the day there are only three colas in the world - Coke, Pepsi and Royal Crown. Most people can't tell which one they are drinking, but they can easily tell when they are drinkng any other colas, which taste like shit compared to Coke, Pepsi and RC. If a retail-branded cola tastes good, that's because it's provided by Cott Corporation and is mostly RC Cola (like President's Choice, or Wegman's W-Pop, and so forth). I've been out of beverage marketing for a few years, so if another cola has achieved recognition due to its taste, I'm unaware of it. Originally Posted by Greentone
Back to guitars...Last edited by Hammertone; 11-05-2017 at 03:40 PM.
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