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Here's another "blind" side-by-side clip I've made, using the Jimmy Raney solo on Rhythm Changes found in the Aebersold Vol. 20. The clip features the Epiphone ES175 Premium and a 2016 Gibson ES175 "Figured" from CME. The guitars alternate, but you don't know which is #1 and which is #2.
I'd love to hear comment on how the two featured (anonymous) instruments on the clip sound to you, which you like best, and if you can clearly distinguish the Epi from the Gibson. It doesn't matter if anyone is right or not, it's just fun to compare two opposite ends of the price spectrum and ask how they sound.
Both were recorded the same. Volume/Tone at 10. Polytone Minibrute II amp, EQ flat all the way across, a little reverb, recorded direct from the pre-amp output.
After a few days, I'll post the clip with the visual revealed to show which guitar is #1 and which is #2.
Enjoy! It's just a game. No tricks, just a fun "shoot out" of two splendid instruments, each in their own way.
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10-17-2017 11:05 PM
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Ok I'll play :-)
Nr 1 has a little bit more volume and a pleasing upper mids/low treble peak. You could call it "bark" but in a good way. Nr 2 is a bit mellower and smoother. Both sound very well, classic 175 sound.
Now the difficult part... nr 1 is the Gibson?
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I liked n2 whatever it is. It was more compressed in a good way.
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One problem I have always doing these kinds of things is that some guitars just record louder than others at the same levels. I hate trying to fix that in the mix down/mastering because I'm afraid I'll change the tone. SO be aware, as is often noted sometimes the louder track gets better reviews than the softer one in these blind comparisons.
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Let me ask you, do you think you hear a difference as you're playing the two?
Maybe that's the larger issue here--what may be apparent (or seemingly apparent) to the player disappears for the audience: There is a role for the sound check guy, after all.Last edited by goldenwave77; 10-18-2017 at 03:17 PM.
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#2 the Gibson ?
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This time I hear a difference. I like 2 best and hope that’s the Gibson.
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1 is louder and to me, more articulate than 2.
Nothing in the recording tells me why I would think one is a Gibson and the other an Epi, but for the sake of playing I'll go 1 Epi, 2 Gibson (2 sounds more like your two 175 & 165 sound check)
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If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that #2 is the Gibson, but that is influenced by its (probably imaginary) tonal resemblance to my '06 ES-175. But given that both the E and the G sport '57 Classics, as does my G.... All bets are off.
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Agreeing with ESCC -- #1 is the Epi 175. It sounds more like my Epi (more pronounced attack) than does #2.
Originally Posted by ESCC
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#2 has a little more treble, sounds more open to me. #1 is darker, less treble. I like #2 better than #1. But again, individual instruments can be so different that I have no clue as to which is which.
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having recently owned each at the same time, I'd say #1, with its distinct clarity over #2, is the Epi Premium. Which is why I preferred it, dare I say it, over the '175.
if I'm wrong, my out is the sound is coming through a compressed youtube upload
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They both sound great to me.
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I prefer #1. Bit more clarity and definition. I should mention that I'm not in the camp which likes the traditional "thunk" of the ES-175. Sometimes I wonder how much of the "jazz tone" some folks love is really a studio/recording creation versus how guitars sound in the player's hands.
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Honestly guys, this is some of most intelligent and thoughtful analysis of tone issues I’ve heard in a long time. It’s worth doing if for no other reason than to listen in on this brain trust. Thanks for every contribution. Tomorrow I’ll post the “reveal” but I’ve already had a lot of fun and heard some good ideas. We all win!
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I have to say, I did this identical comparison with a 1997 '175 and a 2014 Epi Premi' using Henriksen's solid state Alfresco 2 amp, and a Headstrong custom twin reverb style amp.
I'd owned the Epi for nearly 3 months prior to the '175's arrival. When the '175 arrived naturally I was very anxious to A/B these guitars.
I anticipated that the '175 would possess a similar clarity to the Epi, but add a greater weight to its tonality. I was very disappointed that the tonal quality of the '175, with its '57 Classic pickups, by comparison was muffled. The Epi's tonality revealed the same clarity and precision as guitar #1 featured in lawson-stone's upload.
My tonal experience could not be closer than the guitars featured here, so for me it was a no brainer that #1 was the Epi.
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No idea. Man Lawson your contributions around hear add so much value thank you
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Both sound great Lawson. I've never played a 175 but I'm guessing #1 is the 2016 Gibson. Final answer.
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One question.. both bridges are the same? tune o matic? or the 2nd one is an ebony bridge...
1) sound better to my ears, probably a tune o matic... sounds like the instrument is more responsive acousticly... since I played both instruments (and found than the epiphone was louder) I would say
that it is the epiphone. By turning down the tone knob you can get a warm tone like the 2nd example.
2) Sounds deaden acousticly, more electric sound..., warmer, but only for the lack of treble. To my
experience it is the gibson.
My choice is the first one with the tone knob in a lower position.
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I can relate to that! Every audio engineer can tell you that ‘louder’ means better to many people, especially in a direct comparison. It’s for this reason compression is such a much loved (and abused) audio treatment. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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The notes are more balanced on #2
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I think we're the ones having fun, thank you for the time and effort in making the clips! Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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The pickup height is very important here. Just a quarter turn of the adjustment screws can have a dramatic effect on the tone. I played around with the pickup adjustment on several of my guitars yesterday, just for grins, and it still amazes me how much a slight change in height can make, especially as the pickup gets closer to the strings. If you're not satisfied with the sound of your pickups, the first thing to change is the distance from the strings. The sound may still not please you, but it will change. And you may find that the pickup does please you. It takes fiddling for awhile, making small changes, but it's usually worth it. I have no idea how these were set up, but I'd bet money that there are minor differences in the pickup heights. Just a small difference can affect the tone and volume a lot.
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I agree! I can spend hours with a new guitar tweaking pickup height and the individual pole pieces! Originally Posted by sgosnell
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Yeah me too , Originally Posted by Little Jay
you think you get vaguely happy with it
then you take it out on a gig and find out its all totally different ....
(I ended up taking a couple screwdrivers and adjusting it on the gig)
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