Fender Deluxe Reverb or Princeton?

**Little Jay** · 10-06-2017, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

. . . reflecting what a subjective topic 'response to gear' is.

My experience is that the Princeton NoVerb is too quiet for anything but practice at home -- it never breaks up but it never wakes up either. Respect to Jay, whose experience is 180 degrees different.

I have played a fellow guitarist's silverface Princeton Reverb and my opion is also that it's nice amp for at home or (very) quiet gigs. But some months ago I played over a non-reverb Princeton that held up pretty well at a fairly loud jam session with drums and horns in a noisy bar. I thought it was stock, no mods other then a Jensen speaker (C10q maybe).

But for gigging I want at least 30-40 watts in a tube amp (2x 6L6), even if the drummer uses brushes or hot rods.

But with a drummer using sticks I feel most comfortable with my Twin.....

**Rufes** · 10-06-2017, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

Good one. A lot of sources on the internet state that (amongst that an interview with Kenny Burrell if I recall correctly), but I have never seen any photo evidence either!

The only picture I have seen is Wes Montgomery recording with an Ampeg (at least the amp was in the back. I guess he was using it). Then I read that quote from Kenny Burrell too.

**Little Jay** · 10-06-2017, 09:11 PM

This one, right?

**Rufes** · 10-07-2017, 09:40 AM

Yes. Never have seen any Tweed Deluxe.

**Stringswinger** · 10-07-2017, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Rufes

Thanks for all the replies.

I currently have an old '65 Deluxe Reverb. sounds very good but I was thinking that maybe a Princeton would be cleaner, warmer and specially LIGHTER

Another option that calls my attention a lot (even more) is an old Gibson EH150

My main amp is a AI clarus + RE stealth. One of the reasons I like it is because of the warmth but I want to have that tube sound too. However the DR does not get any attention lately.

My main rig is also a AI Clarus and a RE Stealth. But I too like a tube amp for a "different" sound. In the past (before 2000) I tried the following tube amps:

1970 Fender Twin with JBL's (too heavy even in my 20's, but sounded great!)
1980's Fender Concert with 2 10's (pretty heavy and I could never get a warm enough sound)
1990's Mesa Mark 4 (pretty heavy and while it could get a great jazz tone, it took a lot of fiddling to do so)

Since 2000, I have tried the following:

1963 Fender Princeton (too much dirt)
1979 Fender Princeton (great sound with a replaced speaker, but not enough volume for the weight)
recent Fender Princeton Reverb 65 reissue (even with a speaker swap, too bright)
recent Fender Deluxe Reverb 65 reissue (same issue as the Princeton)
1974 Fender Deluxe Reverb (With a speaker swap, a GREAT sounding amp, but too heavy to tote to gigs)
Music Man with one 12 (too heavy and too much midrange)
Fender Blues Junior (terrible jazz tone)
Mesa Subway Blues (terrible jazz tone)

1964 Fender Princeton with a JBL (with a boutique reverb pedal that also has a volume boost). This is the one I kept so my vote in the poll is for the NoVerb Princeton. This amp has the jazz tone of a Fender Twin (though with way less headroom) is easy to tote to gigs and with the verb pedal is loud enough for anything I would ever use it for.

**Gitfiddler** · 10-07-2017, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

My main rig is also a AI Clarus and a RE Stealth. But I too like a tube amp for a "different" sound. In the past (before 2000) I tried the following tube amps:

1970 Fender Twin with JBL's (too heavy even in my 20's, but sounded great!)
1980's Fender Concert with 2 10's (pretty heavy and I could never get a warm enough sound)
1990's Mesa Mark 4 (pretty heavy and while it could get a great jazz tone, it took a lot of fiddling to do so)

Since 2000, I have tried the following:

1963 Fender Princeton (too much dirt)
1979 Fender Princeton (great sound with a replaced speaker, but not enough volume for the weight)
recent Fender Princeton Reverb 65 reissue (even with a speaker swap, too bright)
recent Fender Deluxe Reverb 65 reissue (same issue as the Princeton)
1974 Fender Deluxe Reverb (With a speaker swap, a GREAT sounding amp, but too heavy to tote to gigs)
Music Man with one 12 (too heavy and too much midrange)
Fender Blues Junior (terrible jazz tone)
Mesa Subway Blues (terrible jazz tone)

1964 Fender Princeton with a JBL (with a boutique reverb pedal that also has a volume boost). This is the one I kept so my vote in the poll is for the NoVerb Princeton. This amp has the jazz tone of a Fender Twin (though with way less headroom) is easy to tote to gigs and with the verb pedal is loud enough for anything I would ever use it for.

Interesting amp journey. I'm sure a lot of us have tried some of your listed amps over the years.

Since you've ended with the '64 Princeton, but also use a reverb pedal that has a volume boost, please do tell which pedal. I'd like to try it with my EV10 loaded '68 Princeton drip edge.

**Stringswinger** · 10-07-2017, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by Gitfiddler

Interesting amp journey. I'm sure a lot of us have tried some of your listed amps over the years.

Since you've ended with the '64 Princeton, but also use a reverb pedal that has a volume boost, please do tell which pedal. I'd like to try it with my EV10 loaded '68 Princeton drip edge.

Tone Candy Spring Fever. Not cheap but well worth it.

**Gitfiddler** · 10-08-2017, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

Tone Candy Spring Fever. Not cheap but well worth it.

Yep. Not cheap.

ToneCandy Effects Pedals

**Stringswinger** · 10-09-2017, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Gitfiddler

Yep. Not cheap.

ToneCandy Effects Pedals

Your Drip Edge 68 is essentially the same amp as my late 64 with different cosmetics. And your EV speaker will have a similar tone profile to my JBL D-110F. I think the Tone Candy Spring Fever pedal will make your Princeton a very useable amp for all but the loudest rooms. Take your time and find a used one. I predict that you will be quite pleased.

**Burrellesque** · 10-09-2017, 06:18 PM

There are a couple of photos of Kenny Burrell with Jimmy Smith in Van Gelders studio with what looks suspiciously like a narrow panel tweed Deluxe.

Burrell is said to have owned one, so it could be his. He apparently lent his Deluxe and a guitar to Wes for his first recording session.

Van Gelder is rumoured to have had a tweed Deluxe in his studio, so the amp in the photos could be his. However it could be these photos that have led to that assumption.

**Rufes** · 10-09-2017, 07:42 PM

Who said the tone is in the fingers? LOL

It is in the fingers, the guitar, the strings, the pick, the amp, the speaker, the room, the mic, the console, the tech....

**citizenk74** · 10-10-2017, 01:08 PM

I have a wide-panel Deluxe (octal pre-amp, field-coil speaker) and a DRRI. I am presently Princeton-less, but have owned a pre-CBS noverb and a Silverface PR, unfortunately not simultaneously. I find each of these amps to have their particular glories, having gigged with each of them singly. Which is best? IMHO that depends on the "set and setting," to borrow a phrase. Some rooms need a little more oomph, some rooms make additional reverb redundant. For recording, the octal Deluxe gets the nod for lush, velvety tone for Jazz & Blues; the DRRI for R&B, Pop, & Country; the Princetons for just about anything, with the right pedals.

I think a pair of Princetons could get you through most situations nicely.

**Greentone** · 10-15-2017, 03:26 PM

I compared my buddy's old blackface Fender Deluxe (non-reverb) Amp on Saturday, using a stock Telecaster with the Polytone MiniBrute II I was using at the gig.

(1) IMO, the non-reverb Deluxe is a better sounding amp overall than the Deluxe Reverb amps I have played. (I have owned/played lots of DRs--from '66 and '67 models, onward. Love 'em.) The Deluxe seems a bit louder and a bit cleaner. Love channel one.

(2) The 20-watt Fender Deluxe Amp is _every_ bit as loud as the Polytone MiniBrute II. Going back and forth between the amps at venue filling volumes, there is really no difference.

(3) You can crank the Deluxe up to a higher volume without serious break up/distortion than you can with the Deluxe Reverb. I say this having played many, many DRs.

(4) If I go back to a blackface amp, it will be a Deluxe and I will use my Holy Grail Nano for the 'verb. (May lightning strike!)

**Mark 63** · 02-20-2018, 11:17 AM

The Princeton Reverb is a sweet sounding amp, but always vulnerable in a group setting. It can also be a little boxy sounding at home.
Nonetheless, I deeply regret selling my 1980 silverface PR.

**mr. beaumont** · 02-20-2018, 11:18 AM

Gigging, deluxe reverb, recording, non-verb Princeton.

**Jonathan0996** · 02-22-2018, 11:53 PM

If you live in a fourth floor walk-up in NYC, Princeton. Otherwise Deluxe.

**Rufes** · 02-23-2018, 10:46 PM

I was comparing some of my amps yesterday. A '65 Deluxe Reverb, Clarus + 12'RE, Polytone Megabrute & Jazzamp. They all sound great with their own particularities.

I decided that I will simply keep taking the lightest one every time I go out to play.

**alltunes** · 02-26-2018, 05:29 PM

I have a Victoria 5E3 (tweed deluxe no reverb) and a Headstrong Lil King Reverb (1962 Princeton reverb)
with a 12". The 12" speaker makes a big difference and eliminates the boxy sound mentioned above.

Both great amps and different. For jazz I would think the Lil King would be the one.

**John A.** · 02-26-2018, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Jonathan0996

If you live in a fourth floor walk-up in NYC, Princeton. Otherwise Deluxe.

A PR is 34 LBS. Once you're past the second floor, it might as well be a Marshall stack. Voice of experience.

John

**Greentone** · 02-27-2018, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by alltunes

I have a Victoria 5E3 (tweed deluxe no reverb) and a Headstrong Lil King Reverb (1962 Princeton reverb)
with a 12". The 12" speaker makes a big difference and eliminates the boxy sound mentioned above.

Both great amps and different. For jazz I would think the Lil King would be the one.

You might be surprised by the 5e3. A zillion jazz recordings we all know and love (eg, Blue Note) were made using Rudy Van Gelder's 5e3.

**Gitfiddler** · 02-28-2018, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Greentone

You might be surprised by the 5e3. A zillion jazz recordings we all know and love (eg, Blue Note) were made using Rudy Van Gelder's 5e3.

Not really surprising. In the 50' - 70's and today's studio environment, amps were/are close miked, and drums and other instruments isolated. That's how the mighty Champ amp sounded so huge when Clapton and others used them. They didn't need to be pushed to their distortion level to sound great.

**Tal_175** · 04-22-2018, 04:48 PM

Princeton with a touch of Klon or TS type boost/light drive.

**Alter** · 04-23-2018, 01:40 AM

After finally finding an original 68 princeton reverb with an upgraded speaker and gigging it for a while, I would say that it definitely is the best small fender amp (I 've owned all the others in the past). But still it is missing the full response and presence of the bigger ones, and I'm not talking volume. I also don't think it is a 10' vs 12' thing, but perhaps mostly a small cabinet reality? Having played a lot with deluxe reverbs, I would say the reasons to prefer the Princeton would be 1. If you like the amps breakup (which for jazz would probably be irrelevant), 2. If the absence of bass works for you (I only like it with certain archtops) ,or 3. If the weight difference is important. Otherwise, go deluxe

-edit- although I did end up buying the Princeton -

**pauln** · 09-15-2018, 03:18 AM

The most practical difference I notice is that my archtop prefers the Princeton Reverb because the smaller speaker is much less prone to feedback on a crowded stage; my Strat (still talking about Jazz) prefers the Deluxe Reverb, even more the Super Reverb (why I have two of them), and even more the Twin Reverb (why I have three of them).

There is something about moving more air with more cone surface at clean low volumes with the solid body guitar that is just right; but that much moving paper even at low volumes will feedback the archtop. The Princeton and archtop make a great combination.

**DMgolf66** · 11-29-2018, 05:50 PM

I'm a home player and was considering upgrading from my 1994 Blues Junior. Currently play a Eastman 503 and a ES-125. Was looking at this deluxe as I like the custom color, haha. I know little about speakers, but it looks like its the Jensen speaker is described as "the crunchy goodness of a Jensen speaker". Doesnt sound too jazzy to me. Is there a speaker that folks like more in this amp?
Fender '65 Reissue Deluxe Reverb Limited Edition 2017 | Reverb