Guitar Brand Stigma

[rio]

I definitely agree about the setup. Now that I have gotten good at that stuff I feel like I can order almost anything and have it play well. The big issue for a long time as being afraid of doing the frets but now that that is not an issue it does free me up to buy whatever I want without having to worry about taking it to someone right after I get it to level the frets.

These are all interesting responses. I wonder how non guitarists feel about it - I have played with some sax players in the past who were pretty particular about what they wanted on stage with them, which was pretty annoying since I would never tell anyone what to play other than the instrument they are playing. Like I think it is ok to say you would like upright over electric on a gig if it is your gig since the sound difference is pronounced, and maybe dictating that you would like a clean, traditional guitar sound vs a processed sound is getting closer to the line but still acceptable from a bandleader if they are really looking for a specific sound but beyond that I think it should be the player's choice.


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[Stringswinger]

I definitely agree about the setup. Now that I have gotten good at that stuff I feel like I can order almost anything and have it play well. The big issue for a long time as being afraid of doing the frets but now that that is not an issue it does free me up to buy whatever I want without having to worry about taking it to someone right after I get it to level the frets.

These are all interesting responses. I wonder how non guitarists feel about it - I have played with some sax players in the past who were pretty particular about what they wanted on stage with them, which was pretty annoying since I would never tell anyone what to play other than the instrument they are playing. Like I think it is ok to say you would like upright over electric on a gig if it is your gig since the sound difference is pronounced, and maybe dictating that you would like a clean, traditional guitar sound vs a processed sound is getting closer to the line but still acceptable from a bandleader if they are really looking for a specific sound but beyond that I think it should be the player's choice.


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Jazz musicians can be a pretty conservative bunch. I think it is an expectation that when you are hired for a jazz guitar gig, that you will show up with a guitar that has F holes.

Non musicians OTOH, do not care.

[ooglybong]

As to the Fender name on my '85 Fender D'Aquisto Elite archtop... At a GREAT week-long Jim Hall seminar I attended back in about '87, a fellow student actually came over near me while I was playing quietly and (immediately) 'casually' commented (read: snobby attitude) that "...You can't play jazz on a Fender".Those were actually his exact words. OK, that fellow was just being a moron (and, IMHO, I was doing a pretty good job with the "jazz" at that particular moment), but it does go to show what brand image can do for or against any guitar.

[rpjazzguitar]

It has taken me a while to get comfortable gigging with my student model Yamaha Strat copy. I'm talking about the idea of gigging with a cheapie -- the guitar itself is fine.

I've had comments in various directions. Did a gig at a high end guitar store that has a concert series. One of the guys in my band told me, afterward, that the store guys were laughing at my guitar. My bandmate said "how'd he sound?" and that put an end to it, or so he told me.

I've had it in the studio twice. One time I think the engineer, a gearhead, was just prejudiced against it. I thought it sounded fine.

Another time, a different engineer recorded it and then a Fender American Std and had me do the comparison. The Fender sounded significantly better to all of us. It might have been because the copy has a Lil 59 HB and the Fender has the stock single coil. And, the part called for a jangly rhythm sound (this was a pop recording, not jazz).

But, the thin neck on the copy just works for me. I've gradually gotten over, or maybe come to relish, playing a cheapie. And, it's a relief not to have to worry about it being stolen -- as long as they don't steal the gig bag - which cost more than the guitar.

A couple of weeks ago, a well-known player jammed a tune on it, playing through a 12 watt Crate practice amp. I asked him what he thought. He said the playability was great and the sound was adequate. He sounded awesome on it (although I could hear some notes start to choke off because the action is so low). It was a reminder that it "ain't the guitar" if I'm not sounding better. OTOH, it did not sound as good as his boutique archtop. Oh -- the other guy in the jam was playing an Epiphone archtop through a real amp (can't recall what it was) -- good player. His comping sounded great but his lead lines had more choked off notes and tinniness than my guitar. But, it was a lot more likely the player than the guitar.

Occasionally people post videos with different guitars playing the same sort of material. They don't all sound alike, but I can't recall when one of them sounded bad. And, then, for gigging, the room/setup has such an influence that, to me, it usually overwhelms whatever the difference is between guitars. That wouldn't be true in the studio or maybe in a concert hall, but it is true in the noisy restaurant settings I usually play.

[mrcee]

I played an Epi Les Paul 100 recently and compared it to a Gibson LP, a cheap $800 one from GC, and preferred the Epi.

[mrcee]

Not once, while listening to Bird, Miles Trane, Monk, ... did I ever question what brand of instrument they were playing.
Attended a clinic where Joe Pass played an Ovation acoustic.
After the first few bars, I really didn't care what he was brand playing.

What about Massey Hall and the plastic alto?

[guido5]

Not once, while listening to Bird, Miles Trane, Monk, ... did I ever question what brand of instrument they were playing.
Attended a clinic where Joe Pass played an Ovation acoustic.
After the first few bars, I really didn't care what he was brand playing.

It's because you are a guitar player. Horn players spin endlessly on Miles and on which tunes he used a Martin Committee, was Trane using the Balanced Action or the Super Balanced, etc... Bird with his spending habits used what ever was available or out of hock, but the aficionados preferred how he sounded on a King or a Conn.

Gear mania is an equal opportunity affliction, each to their own specialty...

[mr. beaumont]

Attended a clinic where Joe Pass played an Ovation acoustic.
After the first few bars, I really didn't care what he was brand playing.

Funny, for me this post is a reminder of positive bias...

I see someone playing an Ovation and I think "Ah, they get it."

[RonD]

It's because you are a guitar player. Horn players spin endlessly on Miles and on which tunes he used a Martin Committee, was Trane using the Balanced Action or the Super Balanced, etc... Bird with his spending habits used what ever was available or out of hock, but the aficionados preferred how he sounded on a King or a Conn.

Gear mania is an equal opportunity affliction, each to their own specialty...

Actually, until the onset of COPD, I made most of my living as a trumpet player.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Another laugh I get on this topic is at MyLesPaul ... finding some of the guys there who still think Pagey cut Zeppelin I on a Gibson.

[rio]

Another laugh I get on this topic is at MyLesPaul ... finding some of the guys there who still think Pagey cut Zeppelin I on a Gibson.

But...but the Stairway solo has that classic Les Paul tone!


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[Greentone]

Yep. Both were cut on his Yardbirds Tele.

[rio]

Telecaster supremacy.


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[cosmic gumbo]

A real guitar says Borys on the headstock, so if yours doesn't, it's only natural to be stigmatized...

[LeGrand]

Attended a clinic where Joe Pass played an Ovation acoustic.

As a long time Ovation player, I have received many brushoffs by those who play traditional brands. I've owned 4 and still own 3, with my main gigging guitar an 80's Elite shallow body. It stays in tune like no other and regardless of high humidity, dry heat, or cold and snow - it comes through every time. Funny that those who see it and hear it like, only those "enlightened" players snub it as a "lesser" instrument.

That said, I have mixed probably a thousand guitars or more from every genre and player skill - and for whatever reason, I dislike Ibanez the most. Every one seems nasally and thin. Maybe strings, maybe onboard EQ - but I know every time a player pulls one out, I have my work cut out for me. Washburn's are challenging as well as Seagull. Yamaha, Gibson, Martin, Taylor are generally easy to dial in.

From my mixing experience, strings are an integral component to tone and can make or break an otherwise decent sound. Plus flat EQ settings and a volume setting at a minimum of 75% with 90% preferred. For acoustic/electric guitars going through a mixer into a PA, the onboard pick up optimizes near full volume. An LR Baggs DI box has saved many a session.

Of my 10 guitars, the very best for "feel" are my $400 Epiphone Wildkat, my VERY used Ovation Elite, and my Gibson Legrand. For "tone", nothing beats the LeGrand. Pure unadulterated bliss.

[jazz.fred]

I've said it before and will do so again.

Man, I love my Peerless Monarch 16, Ibanez AF125 Custom and Epi Sheraton. They get the job done!

[sgcim]

Only once have I ever encountered this; did a gig on my MIJ 62' Custom Telecaster - guy came up to say hello. Was friendly enough at first, said he digged the sound. Asked if it was a 'real' Telecaster. I replied 'yes, it's a made in Japan '62 reissue'. He laughed and said 'that's not a real Tele' and walked off.

People are funny.

I saw a great jazz guitarist, George Golla (google him if you don't know who he is); he was using an Epiphone SG. Sounded great. I couldn't care less what brand/guitar is used.

I first heard Golla on the records he did with Don Burrows back in the 70s. Is he still playing?
I always thought of him as the Australian Jim Hall. I think he played a 175 back then.

[sgcim]

A real guitar says Borys on the headstock, so if yours doesn't, it's only natural to be stigmatized...

Here, here! I once had lunch with an Ibanez owner; a traumatic experience!

[DonEsteban]

Here in Spain most musos - I'd even go so far to say most people in general - are rather brand-oriented. I've had some really bad experiences using quality but cheap equipment.

Meanwhile I follow Bucky's advice: "Don't fight forces!" and consider the "social value" or better "prestige value" when buying a guitar.

[Greentone]

Listen with your ears, not your eyes. One of my very favorite guitars is my Memphis EL300 (exactly the same guitar as an Aria PE-180 copy of a Gibson Super-V/or L-5CES with a Super 400 neck). I would play this guitar at Carnegie Hall, for goodness' sake. It sounds sublime.

I have guitars that are WAY more expensive and have name check cachet. The EL300, however, is Old Faithful. Practically plays itself.

[entresz]

I first heard Golla on the records he did with Don Burrows back in the 70s. Is he still playing?
I always thought of him as the Australian Jim Hall. I think he played a 175 back then.

He is still playing; he turned 80 a while ago. Still plays really well too.

[gator811]

When I was in my tele modding partscastering phase, I had an Indonesian made Squier modded nashville style. I put an SD SM-1 in the neck position and started using it for jazz gigs. Unsurprisingly it did the job pretty well, but the funniest thing - I was doing an outdoor gig and after the set ran into a fellow guitarist who was playing on another stage some ways away. He said - "have you got a new Gibson jazzer or something? - I heard these great jazz tones in the distance , sounds like an L5 or something". I revealed the tele - and he lost interest - almost straight away.

[gator811]

I first heard Golla on the records he did with Don Burrows back in the 70s. Is he still playing?
I always thought of him as the Australian Jim Hall. I think he played a 175 back then.

George is a master - still gigging. He was a master teacher too.

Jim Hall - a bit of George Van Eps too, but he has his own thing, a great solo player. He's played a bunch of guitars over the years including a 175, Tele (custom build), SG and Hagstrom , but the one I remember best was the one Maton built for him - GG 2..something.

[sgcim]

George is a master - still gigging. He was a master teacher too.

Jim Hall - a bit of George Van Eps too, but he has his own thing, a great solo player. He's played a bunch of guitars over the years including a 175, Tele (custom build), SG and Hagstrom , but the one I remember best was the one Maton built for him - GG 2..something.

Did he make any recordings as a leader that you'd recommend?
I have most of the Burrows records.
I've heard burrows is in very bad shape with dementia.

[Doctor Jeff]

Funny, for me this post is a reminder of positive bias...

I see someone playing an Ovation and I think "Ah, they get it."

You and Glen Campbell... ;-)