Jim Hall's Gibson ES-175 up close!

[wintermoon]

"gotta rememeber those are old school working mans mods"

yup. when I got my first electric, a 175, first thing I did was Schallerize it

[GNAPPI]

I'll bet he would have laughed at players obsessing over a couple of scratches on a prospective purchase :-) I know I do.

[Cunamara]

The GA-50 was sold in an eBay auction, IIRC.

[SamBooka]

This would be the guitar he traded his Les Paul custom for... got the 175 from Howard Roberts ?

[Dennis D]

- liked the close-up of the Van Eps damper.......never knew that plate was screwed to the headstock........

thanks

[Rob MacKillop]

Wow, talk about iconic. And it's SO beautiful. Great pics. I'd like to see the back as well.

[lawson-stone]

Wow, talk about iconic. And it's SO beautiful. Great pics. I'd like to see the back as well.

Me too! We wants to see the back!

[neatomic]

- liked the close-up of the Van Eps damper.......never knew that plate was screwed to the headstock........

thanks

the later gibson made versions used the trussrod cover holes



cheers

[lawson-stone]

I wonder how much that string damper, rather than turning down the tone knob, accounts for Jim Hall's very distinctive tone?

[55bar]

Wow, talk about iconic. And it's SO beautiful. Great pics. I'd like to see the back as well.

Just for you Lawson and Rob




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lawson-stone]

Thanks!!!

[TH]

I wonder how much that string damper, rather than turning down the tone knob, accounts for Jim Hall's very distinctive tone?

Not at all, for all accounts and purposes. It's a somewhat ineffective attempt to keep open strings from creating feedback and all the rage at a time. They didn't really work and any note that was fretted above the first fret has nothing to do with the effect of this device.
I remember when players had these, and everyone wanted to put "that cool thing" on their guitars. More benefit and effect for the marketers than anything else.
As to Jim's tone, a lifetime's work at being Jim. Ain't no string thingy going to get you closer to that.

David

[docbop]

Not at all, for all accounts and purposes. It's a somewhat ineffective attempt to keep open strings from creating feedback and all the rage at a time. They didn't really work and any note that was fretted above the first fret has nothing to do with the effect of this device.
I remember when players had these, and everyone wanted to put "that cool thing" on their guitars. More benefit and effect for the marketers than anything else.
As to Jim's tone, a lifetime's work at being Jim. Ain't no string thingy going to get you closer to that.

David

I remember back in the day when a few had those I think only once did I see Herb Ellis actually flip it down to mute strings. These day the two-handed guitar players using hair squishes to do the same thing when they are tapping to mute strings. Remember when Fender put the mute on the Jaguar but at the bridge. They said it was to fake a banjo sound.

[docbop]

Appears he had the finish sanded off the back of the neck can see on heel where original finish is still there. I also like the big metal plate on the side. Sure it was required to repair a jack accident, but it's so big I wonder if it is also to make easier to make changes to PUP and pots.

[setemupjoe]

I had the chance to hang out with Jim Hall at his apartment back in the early 80's and he told me the story of that 175.
In his study he had a table by the door and would lay his guitar on it. He also had a framed picture hanging on the wall above it.
One day he heard a crash and discovered the picture had fallen off the wall and slammed into the top of the guitar. I can't remember if he said Jimmy D'Aquisto did the repairs but I do remember him saying the guitar never felt the same after that. I believe that was one reason why he moved to his later guitars.

[neatomic]

herb e style


george van eps was not only a musical genius, but he was also a precision clockworks type engineering genius....if he came up with the damper and thought it worthwhile, thats good enough for me...barring user or installation error...not a guy to be taken lightly..or his ideas!!



cheers

ps- when barry galbraith calls you out as the best..thats saying something!!!!...galbraith and johnny smith were old school elite!!!..the top nyc session/reader guitarists of the day

and of course the great ted greene also loved van eps...did wonderful interview with him

[sgosnell]

I never saw Herb Ellis in the flesh, but videos commonly show the damper in place.

[Cunamara]

GVE apparently also built a working large scale model steam locomotive because he heard someone say it couldn't be done. At least that's my recollection of the story, which I think was in Ted Greene's profile of him in Guitar Player in the early 80s. Could be my memory is on the fritz again. Maybe somebody's got that GP issue handy.

[NSJ]

I am absolutely convinced that, if we did not know who owns this guitar, and it was offered for sale, most collectors would Skoff at it, strictly based on the number and type of modifications made on the guitar. Play ability and sound always take a backseat to whether the pick guard is specifically period correct and if the pick up has changed and if the guitar has been refretted.
'

[lawson-stone]

I am absolutely convinced that, if we did not know who owns this guitar, and it was offered for sale, most collectors would Skoff at it, strictly based on the number and type of modifications made on the guitar. Play ability and sound always take a backseat to whether the pick guard is specifically period correct and if the pick up has changed and if the guitar has been refretted.
'

That's how collectibility always works, though. Any item is valued by collectors due to its relationship with history, not its serviceability as a tool or instrument. A perfectly serviceable bedroom in a quaint old B&B becomes hopelessly inaccessibly if George Washing slept in it.

As an archaeologist, I understand any material object exists in several matrices of value simultaneously. Something has a functional role, but it simultaneously has a connection with history, and might also be inherently beautiful regardless of its age, or extremely useful regardless of its appearance or historical connection. Contexts attribute meaning to material objects.

Lets face it: the actual materials in that ES175 are only worth about $50 all together. But formed into any Gibson ES175, they become several orders of magnitude more valued in some contexts, say, jazz guitarists. Pass that modestly valued raw material assembled into that guitar into the hands of a master player, and another value context kicks in, just as meaningful and valid as the others.

it's just a reality of human material culture: multiple, simultaneous value matrices exist and define the worth of any given object.

[dot75]

Agreed, I'm trying to figure out how the the lacquer got worn so much just on the top above the 15th fret. Any ideas?

There's a Library Of Congress ( ? ) interview where he talks about looking down at his guitar while he was in the house band for the merv griffin show & noticing he'd worn the finish away by resting his chin on his hands just there.... no idea if this is the guitar but he decided it was time to leave...that & having to turn down Miles because he didn't have the chops anymore...

[neatomic]

There's a Library Of Congress ( ? ) interview where he talks about looking down at his guitar while he was in the house band for the merv griffin show & noticing he'd worn the finish away by resting his chin on his hands just there.... no idea if this is the guitar but he decided it was time to leave.

hah..yeah thats the one he used on merv...that was his main guitar for years!!...until it was to frail to take out on the road anymore and jimmy D..built him a new one...btw jimmy D made him 2 before he finally got the third perfect for jim!! and based on the es 175 feel

cheers

[neatomic]

GVE apparently also built a working large scale model steam locomotive because he heard someone say it couldn't be done. At least that's my recollection of the story, which I think was in Ted Greene's profile of him in Guitar Player in the early 80s. Could be my memory is on the fritz again. Maybe somebody's got that GP issue handy.

true!...as i posted ^ he had clockworks engineering skills..

heres the gp interview with ted greene...

http://www.tedgreene.com/images/pdf/..._Interview.pdf

theres also an unedited audio tape of the interview..available at teds site and on youtube as well

TedGreene.com - Audio - Ted Greene, George Van Eps Interview


cheers

[floatingpickup]

- liked the close-up of the Van Eps damper.......never knew that plate was screwed to the headstock........

thanks

I think it was just the early van eps string dampers that were like that. I had one, which had a full plate to replace the truss rod cover. Here is mine:
Keith

[floatingpickup]

the later gibson made versions used the trussrod cover holes

cheers

I agree that Jim's damper was an early version. Are you sure Gibson made the later ones? It seems unlikely because the three holes do not line up with a Gibson truss rod cover (which only has two screws). I posted a picture (above) of the one I had on a 175 and I had to drill an extra hole to make it fit.
Keith