Archtop Depth and Bad Shoulder

[whiskey02]

In my (limited) experience I've found that shallow depth full hollow bodies tend to sound thin and shallow. Not just lacking bass but across the whole range. Once-you get down to ES3xx depth and up to double that, I think a guitar really benefits by having a center block. There's a reason why 16,17,18 inch guitars are historically of a certain depth, just as there's reason why tele's an Lesters are not 3.5" deep.
Have you spoken with your surgeon and PT about whether you can realistically expect to be "pain free" in reasonable time (given the position you're putting your shoulder in for hours at a time)?
If you're willing to spend 5k you should probably take a good while to make that choice so I'd suggest picking up a used solidbody under $500 to play while you figure out what your best move is going to be. If playing the Guild hurts now, stop playing it immediately.
Good luck.

[gianluca]

Byrdland...
incredible acoustic tone...

[deacon Mark]

Thank you for the excellent suggestion. The sad part is that I am counsel for a health system. My shoulder doc says that my subscapularis is the culprit (my surgery was for a torn labrum). I have the PT scrip - just have to fill it. I will have to look hard for someone who can do what you suggest (which sounds like it would indeed be a gold mine).

As a long distance runner for 39 years and cycling, the older I get I go through a daily stretching regime. It is not static stretching but active. Not done to trigger a stretch response to avoid tearing tissue. It is gentle and do not expect miracles but it works. As we age we loose flexibility and strength. Have work on strength in overall health. My cardio is fine same resting pulse of 40 that it was 25 years ago when I ran 7-8 minute miles training. Now they are 9-10 minutes and more aches.

playing the guitar is physical if you do it much. I used to sit and play hours on end. No more I sit for 30 minutes then stand and play for awhile. Change positions all the time. I always prefer 18 inch jazz guitars and I want to keep playing them. Find pressure points and get a massage too. I do some self massage of hamstrings use ice and heat. This mornings 7 mile run followed with cold shower on legs and back for 5 minutes. Do this with your shoulder.

[samsondale]

In my (limited) experience I've found that shallow depth full hollow bodies tend to sound thin and shallow. Not just lacking bass but across the whole range. Once-you get down to ES3xx depth and up to double that, I think a guitar really benefits by having a center block. There's a reason why 16,17,18 inch guitars are historically of a certain depth, just as there's reason why tele's an Lesters are not 3.5" deep.
Have you spoken with your surgeon and PT about whether you can realistically expect to be "pain free" in reasonable time (given the position you're putting your shoulder in for hours at a time)?
If you're willing to spend 5k you should probably take a good while to make that choice so I'd suggest picking up a used solidbody under $500 to play while you figure out what your best move is going to be. If playing the Guild hurts now, stop playing it immediately.
Good luck.

"Doctor, it hurts when I do x." "Stop doing x!!"

Actually, I've been playing my Tele lately. Speaking with my doctor today.

[samsondale]

For ~$5K you can get almost anything you want! Too many great builders to list here!

For arm/shoulder problems, though, I'd highly recommend a "klein-style" ergonomic guitar; makers like Chris Forshage, Victor Baker, etc. (there's a small group of them) can make a comfortable, light guitar that sits perfectly in your lap, and sounds great!

Here's a recent Forshage "hollowbody archtop" example:

Attachment 43226Attachment 43227

That is extremely cool looking. I will do some research on those when I get home from my daughter's concert tonight.

[samsondale]

As a long distance runner for 39 years and cycling, the older I get I go through a daily stretching regime. It is not static stretching but active. Not done to trigger a stretch response to avoid tearing tissue. It is gentle and do not expect miracles but it works. As we age we loose flexibility and strength. Have work on strength in overall health. My cardio is fine same resting pulse of 40 that it was 25 years ago when I ran 7-8 minute miles training. Now they are 9-10 minutes and more aches.

playing the guitar is physical if you do it much. I used to sit and play hours on end. No more I sit for 30 minutes then stand and play for awhile. Change positions all the time. I always prefer 18 inch jazz guitars and I want to keep playing them. Find pressure points and get a massage too. I do some self massage of hamstrings use ice and heat. This mornings 7 mile run followed with cold shower on legs and back for 5 minutes. Do this with your shoulder.

Pressure points help. Pecking away at my computer at work with my arm extended probably does not.

[samsondale]

While I've been trying to respond directly to all of these great suggestions, I want to thank everyone for offering their advice. You've been very kind to essentially a newbie (I've been a member for years but have posted only sporadically; more of a lurker).

[mad dog]

I recently had trouble with a left arm muscle injury. Definitely bothered me to play larger archtops. It wasn't just depth. As Jim S. and others note, lower bout size plays apart. The guitar that troubled me most was a Gretsch Country club. Not the full, 3+ inch depth, but it is 17" at the lower bout and 25.5 scale. Bothered me to the point that I consigned the guitar for sale.

None of my other archtops have that full depth eiither. The 16" lower bout Heritage H575 is 2 3/4" deep, the 16" lower bout H525 is 2 1/4" deep. The Dearmond T400 (more or less a replica of the old Guild Duane Eddy DE-400), is 17" at the lower bout, and 2" deep in the body. All very comfortable to play, even with the aching arm.

The one I'd expect to have the biggest acoustic presence is the H575, due to the solid maple top. But no. The H525 and Dearmond both are louder, quite nice sounds unplugged. At least in my experience, acoustic quality is hard to predict based on specs alone. I'm always surprised at which guitars sound better that way.

[marcwhy]

That is extremely cool looking. I will do some research on those when I get home from my daughter's concert tonight.

I think they look pretty cool, too, and they play wonderfully!

Chris' website is old and worthless; check here: Chris Forshage
- YouTube
and search around for other players' vids. [he's kind of a rock/blues/jazz guy himself!]

Here are his real pics: http://s1038.photobucket.com/user/chrisforshage/library/?sort=4&page=1

Enjoy!

[yebdox]

Thank you for the excellent suggestion. The sad part is that I am counsel for a health system. My shoulder doc says that my subscapularis is the culprit (my surgery was for a torn labrum). I have the PT scrip - just have to fill it. I will have to look hard for someone who can do what you suggest (which sounds like it would indeed be a gold mine).

If you are stable from surgery, you may get a lot more relief by having any remaining adhesions released through some myofascial approach, as opposed to just strengthening. Ive used Active Release in my practice for 20 years with great success on post-op shoulders, as well as adhesive capsulitis and the more common impingement syndromes. The subscap muscle is a common culprit and trying to get stronger as a path to relief is often like stepping harder on the gas, with your foot still on the brake, if that muscle cannot lengthen properly.

Chiros and PTs are the people most commonly using Active Release, you can find someone at www.activerelease.com. If you COULD feel good in any position, that would be the optimal outcome, correct? Not uncommon in my experience to see a patient get the relief they were expecting from surgery, once residual (or likely, pre-existing) adhesions are mobilized, which then allows you to benefit from exercise, along with a wider choice of guitars

[samsondale]

If you are stable from surgery, you may get a lot more relief by having any remaining adhesions released through some myofascial approach, as opposed to just strengthening. Ive used Active Release in my practice for 20 years with great success on post-op shoulders, as well as adhesive capsulitis and the more common impingement syndromes. The subscap muscle is a common culprit and trying to get stronger as a path to relief is often like stepping harder on the gas, with your foot still on the brake, if that muscle cannot lengthen properly.

Chiros and PTs are the people most commonly using Active Release, you can find someone at www.activerelease.com. If you COULD feel good in any position, that would be the optimal outcome, correct? Not uncommon in my experience to see a patient get the relief they were expecting from surgery, once residual (or likely, pre-existing) adhesions are mobilized, which then allows you to benefit from exercise, along with a wider choice of guitars

That sounds like my situation- it is like the muscle is knotted and doesn't want to stretch.