Any Love for the Plek Machine?

[bluemusic4us]

It's a good option for people that don't have a really good tech available to them.
It is programmed to come up with results that are spec on.

But, being a computer, it doesn't have the human touch. It can't see that maybe the problem is in the neck wood or improper alignment of the bridge or whatever. . . I'm not a tech.

But I have a REALLY GOOD one. And the human element can't be underestimated in guitar set-up. A really good set-up guy still beats a plec any day.

I do understand the usefulness of it in the assemble line production of guitars, etc.

[LtKojak]

how many endless variations

That's an oxymoron. By definition, you simply can't have a number of variations and be endless at the same time. But don't worry, English is only one of six languages I speak, which inherently gives you the upper hand in getting me arrested by the "Nazi Grammar Police" at any time! Isn't life great?

I do understand the Plek toolpaths actually cut the relief into the fret tops as you might with a classical guitar, rather than simply allowing the string tension to do it.

Only if instruct the machine to do so. Also, FYI, among those "useless, endless variations" programs, there are several (that I know of) that take into consideration string type, gauge and the variations in the elliptical movement produced by every single string being plucked, in every fret, within certain parameters of plucking force.

I can only assume that the reason a highly skilled operator is required to run this thing is because of the flexible nature of the machine's construction

"Flexible nature"? Oh man, you're killing me!

it holds the neck in only three spots, the flexible nature of a guitar, etc. This whole system is basically a noodle

You really must have a pathological need to have the last word about anything... don't tell me; you forgot to have your prescription meds filled...?

What happens if you remove the guitar from the fixture and then clamp it back in?

Why in the name of the Almighty would you even think about doing something similar...? It just doesn't make any sense...

So you scan it again, cut it again, scan it again...now this is starting to feel like frustration.

Is this what you think about how the machine is actually used? I'm having stomach ache for laugling so hard.

necks that get "pleked" sometimes get ruined by inexperienced hands who keep at it until the frets are too low?

Oh, man... stop... I'm getting stomach cramps...

here's my challenge: Ask the Plek engineers for a tolerance that all the fret tops should be within after a final cutting pass, that based on their promotional materials. Then have the guitar "plekked". Then take it to an inspection lab. Clamp the guitar down to a big Starrett granite plate and use a large, expensive CMM to inspect the fret tops. I'm betting that the guitar might play "just fine", but that the fret top tangent points will not correspond very closely to the CAD drawing used to generate the toolpath. And the tolerance will not be anywhere close to within 0.0004" as they may have advertised.

If it does, I'll eat my words.

If you accept to sustain the cost for all the machinery, logistics and qualified personnel needed for the test to be executed, it can certainly be arranged... are you going to put your money where your mouth is?

Color me cynical, but somehow, I pretty much doubt it. Wait! I see that and I raise a "never going to happen".

Am I getting warm...?

[LtKojak]

100% agreed that the actual fret top tolerances in a ready-to-play plek'ed guitar will not follow the claimed sub-system tolerance at all.

But even if they do, you don't actually need even a tenth of the precision the machine inherently offers.

If recorded differences occur, chances are, they'll be related to not having the instrument well-fixated in either the reading process part or the execution process part, or even in both of them, if lightning should strike, so to speak.

However, although not impossible, it's very unlikely to happen to anybody even with minimal training on the machine.

HTH,

[GNAPPI]

Gibson's plek must be out of whack because a 2016 Les Paul ES I bought had all of the frets over 12 horribly dressed... if at all. I returned it.

[Straightfrets]

To address Mark's post, the Plek does indeed acount for a players style. The higher the action, the more you're telling the machine how heavy handed of a player you are dealing with. As the Plek inventor likes to phrase it, action drives relief.

I've had my Plek machine since December and being in Austin and having the only one in the state (available to the public), we have done our share of Plek jobs in the first 9 months. The other one in the state is Collings, but why would you want your guitar to play like a Collings??

For years I was able to do an even better fret job than conventional methods by having the Plek (videos) influence my thinking and starting to use patio doors rollers to spread the strings out in the treble or bass regions, leveling random high frets or that pesky "ski-jump" with diamond fret levelers. A method I call the hillbilly Plek, which incorporates string tension into the process of leveling. Of course, it also relies on a sense of touch, hearing, and understanding which direction the string is being put into motion to best adapt the process to each player's attack, action, and string gauge. (Having a M.M. in classical guitar doesn't hurt with these things).

After hillbilly Plekking it for about 7 years and getting to the point of refretting Bob Dylan's main guitar, in addition to many other touring professionals with about 400 guitars worked on a year, I can say WITHOUT A DOUBT, the Plek takes it to another level.

Plek acurracy starts with the scan, a digital finger that measures in thousands of a millimeter. That's +/- 2/10,000". If you know what a thousandth of an inch is (basically rolling paper), break that into 25 segments. That's your ruler to start with. It also measures the radius of your first and 12th fret, in addition to the height of the frets, and the wood for the path of each string, in addition to the action. It tells the truth. I have a pretty damn good eye, but what I can now see in the middle part of the board along the path of each string, could never be told with any notched straight edge or even partial notched straight edge.

To address the issue of the Plek not making measurements under no string load, the machine rescans the instrument when strapped in (just prior to cutting) to calculate the difference from when it was under string pressure to give accurate results when strung back up to pitch. In the process of just Plekking a guitar's frets, it's not unlikely to scan the guitar 6-8 times. Basically every time the door is opened, the guitar is rescanned. In the process of fingerboard cutting and refretting with a stubborn truss rod, we can see up to 14 scans for one instrument. Might seem excessive, but it only takes about 40 seconds. I guess one advantage of this would be if an airline ever knocked your instrument out of wack, a new scan could be used to argue your point from a legal angle.

One of the ways it is superior to leveling by hand is that it's not leveling frets in a straight line, expecting the truss rod, fret slots, and density of the wood to be so consistent that results are always predictable. Instead, it's factoring in the nature of how that guitar's neck is bent under string pressure and how the truss rod might need to be adjusted to get to take the least of fret material off to make a perfect fret dress for the path of each string's amplitude.

Two of my favorite processes of the Plek is the fingerboard planing and nut cutting, but before I address those, I wanted to talk about a process of partial refretting using the scanning finger to guide removal of material:

When I flew Joe Glaser out here in December to train us, I had my very beautiful custom shop '62 RI Fender Tele that had the classic Fenderitis ski jump that I wanted the Plek to fix. Joe taught me a trick: we scraped rosewood away in the upper 7 frets and kept rescanning it until the board met the suggested neck relief blue line on the screen. When it matched, we pulled the upper frets, filed the Rosewood nibs into the existing board and smoothed it with 600 grit. From there, I refretted the upper frets and was able to Plek the frets with even fret height upstairs.

One of my favorite processes that the Plek machine does is fingerboard planing. It will allow for us to give a compound radius beyond the control of aluminum radius beams. If you'd like your fingerboard to go from 8.2 to 9.7 at the 12th fret, to 13.3 at the last fret, no problem. The real advantage of this is once the frets are installed, only a "fly footprint" is taken off to have a perfect fret dress.

The other process that I love about the Plek is the nut cutting process. Knowing that I never have to cut a nut blank by hand again almost makes it worth the cost of the machine. Not only does it control the angle of the slot towards the head of the guitar, but also how much each slot splays to each tuner, how far from the edge of the board you want both E strings, and of course what string gauge and action you'd like.

Another cool feature that we don't get to use often is cutting a new saddle slot for perfect intonation, and slotting a nut shelf for a Floyd Rose locking nut without the need for shims.

Of course, I will say the Plek is just a machine and due to software updates from time to time, it can stop in the middle of a process and say there's an error, when there's nothing wrong really. It can also be frustrating to scan a guitar with coated strings, as the machine's scanner finger completes a circuit from a connected clip at the tuners. Another gripe I have is that if the frets are loose at all, the perfection of the fret dress is compromised slightly, and out comes the hillbilly Plek to finish the (extremely fine) touch up.

If you've read this much, check out our videos on YouTube. I've tried to watch virtually all of the others on the net to give the most amount of info in a short amount of time. I have recently shot a complete refret with a compound radius along with nut cutting that hasn't been edited yet. Should be up in a month or less. We now work on 600-700 guitars a year and I've seen guitars from 12 different states.

[Thumpalumpacus]

what you have to remember is that all fret leveling is done relative to the bow (trussrod adjustment) of the neck (at that precise moment the work is being done)...once that bow parameter changes..(and it does via string tension, weather/humidity, etc)..then the 100% accuracy of the work is immediately compromised

why its better to at least have a head start, and have the guitar pleked to your actual (preferred) set up

cheers

This is pretty much my objection to factory plekking. I suppose it could be useful in aftermarket modding where there's a personal relationship with the tech and the player. And I understand that all necks will travel eventually.

[rpjazzguitar]

I had a Godin multiac nylon set up by Gary Brawer. There was some buzz. So, he pleked it. I couldn't detect any improvement. The buzz subsided on its own, maybe because the string wore in a bit.

[jzucker]

plek is fine but a friend of mine had a refret done by a famous shop in nashville and it came back sounding and playing like crap. I'll still take a great human luthier over any plek machine and refrets I've had done by ken lesko and jay pawar I'd put up against any plek machine and probably win.