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"Big difference between a PR biased at 19 (from the factory) with a C10R and one biased at 30 with a Celestion. BIG."
VERY truly written. I agree.
Campilongo is able to replace output tubes regularly. If you don't mind buying a matched set of 6V6GT tubes, say, annually (maybe a bit more frequently than that), go ahead and bias HOT. The sound is pretty neat. Remember, though, if you actually blow those tubes you can take out a transformer, too.
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05-19-2017 01:14 PM
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Yes, I learned that trick from an old GP article when Jim still lived in San Francisco and played a Vibrolux Reverb. Teles sound great at all stops along the volume knob and tend to have a fatter clean sound with the volume set low into a cranked amp rather than the volume on 10 into a clean amp. I also think he employs the old Roy Buchanan trick of leaving a reserve volume so that you can do more with volume knob swells.
Originally Posted by ruger9
I don't find that approach works, though, with my 175. I might set the guitar's volume down, but I prefer the Princeton's volume to be set clean, 4-5. I find that the C10N is awesome in both contexts. I bought a couple off Ebay that were pulled out of an organ and sent one, which had a bad cone, to Weber for a recone. Both sound excellent and really make the PRRI sound close to the old Princeton. However, because I use multiple guitars I prefer the bias set more normal and am still thrilled with the sound. I saw Jim at the 55 Bar last year and didn't think his Princeton sounded terribly atypical.
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Originally Posted by Greentone
I have a Super-sonic 22, but it's got the same bias point as a PR and DR... and since learning Jim's "bias hot trick", it's all I ever do. I've gotten addicted to the extra... "tone" lol... extra girth, extra feel, it's more responsive, you feel more connected to the amp... I got used to the hot bias, and will never look back. Life is short. Tubes are cheap (enough.) LOL
BTW- Jim also uses NOS tubes $$$$. I gave up on NOS awhile ago.... they sound great, but there's some really good sounding new production tubes out there these days, for less money.
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Anyone tried a Regular '65 Reissue back to back with the Brownie and the Bordeaux? I'm not sure which I'll prefer for my 175 but can only try the regular one nearby, I'd be ordering a used one from elsewhere of the other two.
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Is the Fender Princeton Reverb II a good amp for jazz?
How will it compare to a 65 Princeton Re-issue (which I know pretty good)? Unfortunately not possible to play before buy - it's a 3000km away, but can be shipped
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Mine makes delicious clean tones. What speaker does this one contain?
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"Worth" is a tricky word ... It's partly how much the item actually costs, and how "valuable" it is to you. If it's in good condition, I'm sure it'll sound great, and is it 200 or 2000 (add your currency here)? Also, do 20 watts serve your purpose (gigs, bedroom, etc.)?
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Price is good - just slightly higher a used Princeton 65 RI. I’m using a deluxe reverb for my gigs (22W) the PRRI65 was too quiet but this one should be louder with the 20W... Originally Posted by marcwhy
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Rivera-era Fender, hand wired, depending on the price i’d Jump on it. May need a cap job, not a big deal.Just my opinion.
steven
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Yes if price is OK. I have one that I gig with, it's loud enough with a loud drummer, but we play in a small room. At times it is too loud.
The speaker you use will impact on this.
It's almost like having a Deluxe Reverb, just smaller, but ballsy. It can get some nice overdrive. I don't go for extremes, just some hair!
But it is not a "channel switcher". Even with the pedals. You set it the way you want it, and that's about it. No reverb on the "lead" channel, just the clean. There are blogs and info sites about this amp.
But once you set it the way you want it, it's a great amp, in a compact package. I am using the Eminence GA 64 speaker for a trad Fender Jensen sound. Love it.
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PRII's are great 'under the radar' amps. With proper maintenance and an efficient speaker, they sound amazing, especially for their current prices.
Be advised however, that many have been modded over the years by previous owners. Some try to get a better high gain or overdriven sound. This is a fairly complex amp due to its designed channel switching and sensitive tone stack. The treble, midrange bass and presence controls interact in a way not similar to most Fender amps. That is not a bad thing, but users need to be aware of that and not be afraid to twist or pull out tone control knobs.
Too many players want a Boogie or smooth overdrive rock sound from this amp, but that isn't its forte. Yes, it has a Paul Rivera designed gain channel, but don't waste your time with it. Stick with the clean aspects of its wide tonal spectrum, and you will be rewarded with an incredibly versatile amp, usable in small to medium sized venues, and loud band settings.
Since you are seeking a good jazz tone your work is simplified. If you buy the amp, simply start with all controls turned to zero and gradually work you way up to 10. That's right...10! My PRII sounds best with the treble and bass turned to 10, and the midrange either at zero or 10. Mind you, I've had my amp modded to bring out the best clean tones, so don't use my settings. Also, my amp has a 200 watt Fender branded EV12L speaker, giving it additional head room and girth. It just confirms that an efficient speaker will reward you with better clean headroom for jazz.
Once I had my amp set to MY specs, I absolutely love it! But everyone is different, so go for the amp and have fun with it. PRII's are great amps. If you don't dig what it sounds like...fine. Since it is hand wired (NOT point-to-point as many claim) and has no pc board components, simply send it to a qualified tech and tell them what you want from it. I've had two PRII's and kept the best sounding one as a starting point. Now its perfect...for me.
For more fun reading about Princeton II amps, check out this site dedicated to the marque:
Unofficial Fender Princeton Reverb II page
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A popular replacement speaker for this amp; I have heard nothing but good spoken of it. Originally Posted by jzjazz
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The PR II is very much like your DR. It uses the same output transformer, same speaker and, IMR, similar circuit voltage. They're going to sound a lot alike. Originally Posted by jzjazz
. PR II has a more-flexible tone stack but zillions of players like the DR tone as it stands
. PR II has an overdrive mode, for a sound that some people like and other people don't
. PR II is slightly smaller / lighter; DR has a bigger cabinet which some people like sonically
. DR has two independent channels
. DR has tremolo
In short, the PR II with a tremolo pedal can do almost exactly everything your DR can. It can also run some other tricks that some people like.
Hope this is some help.
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One last comment. The DR has a tube rectifier and the PRII has a solid state rectifier. While both have 22 watts, there is very little sag with the PRII, and it seems to have a lot more headroom than a DR. All of the Rivera era Fender amps have solid state rectifiers.
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Mine also has the Fender 12F (not in fact an EV-12L, but that is another story) and is unmodified. My current settings are Treble at 2, Mid at 7, Bass at 1. Volume is at 3 and Master at 4. Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
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It's my primary first choice gigging amp. I got my Princeton II new and I've had it ever since. I love it and would never give mine up. I've got a Cannabis Rex in mine. Will do more than hold its own with warmth and clarity and a unique voice even in a medium sized club filled with shouting college kids trying to party over the music. I have a number of NY cats who regularly borrow that amp when they come to town because it can do anything they want and because it's portable too. By the way, they all want my amp.
Just one subjective thumbs up for the II.
David
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Alright I bought it
will take a week to arrive, can’t wait!
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Congratulations on your purchase. If you email the serial number to Stratopastor, he will tell you when the amp was built. His website is a mine of informaton.
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Great! It's a really nice amp. I realize that I didn't address the comparison with the Princeton re-issue. Different animals. For me, it's like the best of Princeton brought into the power range of the Deluxe. And more. Rivera made these when Boogie was taking the market by modding Princetons and making the original Mesa Boogie monsters in a small cabinet; the Princeton II was created out of this niche. I do have a silver face Princeton, but in all honesty, when I play out, it's the Princeton II that I grab. I hope it's a good match for you too. Let us know what you think. If you don't take a liking to it, there are buyers out there. My friends tell me it's a sought after amp with more seekers than sellers. You'll be in a good place either way. Originally Posted by jzjazz
Alright I bought it will take a week to arrive, can’t wait!
David
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The Princeton Reverb that Paul Rivera modified for Tommy Tedesco in 1979 shows the influence of the Mesa Boogie MK1. Fender gave Rivera the opportunity to create a new Princeton Reverb with similar features, accessed by pull pots.
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i played one in a store for a bit, it's great, not as good as a princeton reissue or silverface/blackface for jazz, but well made and hand wired i believe, which makes it easy to mess with and modify, at the prices they go for, they are a steal
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It is a great amp. I have the "pedals" and don't need them. The amp STANDS on its own. I can probably re-sell them for a pretty penny - they work better on my Rivera Concert, as a boost when switching from Clean channel to OD channel/
The thing with these amps is: if you don't try to make it a Distortion king, you can get yer basic Fender tones and then add some hair, or a lot of hair. Add a pedal or two. But they suffer from a rep as not being "killer" distortion amps. For that, buy a "rock" amp. A Dumble or a clone. Better yet buy a FUCHS Casino series amp to cover many bases.
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Here's a vid I made with my friend today:
I'm playing my VB15 through the Princeton, he's playing a "telemaster" (telecaster with jazzmaster body) through a Deluxe Reverb 65.
But about the amp!
Pros (compared to the Deluxe 65 IR I've been using for the last year or so)
- lighter and smaller
- much more control over the sound - each knob does so much more than in the deluxe! The deluxe 65 sounds great with treble and bass at 1 and also great with treble and bass at 7. The princeton does not - with treble at 2 I get a very dark sound, not possible to get with the princeton. With the treble at 5 I get a tone much brighter than anything on the deluxe)
- not to mention that it has a mid knob and a presence knob
- with the above there are plenty ways to achieve a cool sound, e.g. turn down guitar tone, turn up presence (very cool sound), turn up guitar tone, turn down treble and presence (that's what I did in the video)
Cons:
- the deluxe sounds "bigger" - it doesn't have such cool midrange as the princeton, but has a much fuller low end. Maybe the bigger housing? Both have a 12" speaker. Maybe I should consider a speaker swap, not sure yet. With the "telemaster" today the deluxe sounded better than with the princeton, unless we tried to get a "jazz tone" out of it - this was much easier with the princeton.
But to make this long story short - I like the princeton much more. It is pretty similar, yes. But after playing it for a couple minutes, switching back to the deluxe instanly shows that the princeton is so much cooler
Rounder and softer, with the right settings of course.
Another thing - this little princeton has tons of potential left
- I've experimentet with the tubes (different tubes of one kind), since there where a couple different in it. I instantly got a better sound with the right combination (probably most importantly choosing the right tube for the preamp)
- the amp has 6L6 tubes installed as powertubes - there should be 6v6 tubes (which would make it quiter but probably sound better), so this is something which needs addressing (can't do it myself because of the re-biasing, so this is something for later)
- according to the internet almost every speaker like Weber / Eminence Lil Bud etc. will make it sound even better
I can only imagine how this amp will sound with this changes, when it already sounds better than my so-far-favorite
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Happy New Amp Day! Back in the day I intended to pick up one of those - still regret that I never did...
Enjoy your new amp!
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Congrats! Enjoyed the piece and your playing!
I bet someone bought 6L6s but never re-biased, so the 6L6s are biased stone-cold in the 20-30% range. Originally Posted by jzjazz
The PR II power transformer is the Deluxe Reverb unit. It's built for six preamp tubes, 2x 6V6 and a 5AR4 rectifier. On the PR II there are only four preamp tubes and solid-state rectification. That should leave enough spare power to handle swapping in 6L6s.
However, the PR II also uses a Deluxe stock output transformer. Unless someone has upgraded the unit it's going to deliver about 20 Watts whether you use 6L6s or 6V6s. Even if you bias the 6L6s into the normal 50-70% range that output tran is still only going to give you about 20 Watts. It may sound a little different -- you may like it better or not -- but it won't be louder.
Play it long and well, and don't forget to let the neighbors know you have a new amp!
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