Floating Pickup for Acoustic Strings?

[rlrhett]

So I should get a Rhythm Chief and/or a K&K Big Twin transducer?

Short answer: Yes to "and".

I find that the best combo for acoustic strings is the sound board transducer combined with the mag pickup of your choice. I like the Kent Armstrong 12 pole. Blended is a great sound. As far as feedback, SBT's do make your top one giant microphone. I've not played in a really loud environment, but if you have a blend pot on the guitar or an external preamp, you can dial the SBT's back to near nothing and still round out the sound.

[omphalopsychos]

I emailed the guys at Djangobooks. Their recommendation is a rhythm chief and a k&k definity. It seems like a reasonable pair. Should I do it?? Lot of money to drop on an experiment, but the nice thing is that both of these are completely non-invasive to the guitar and mostly reversible. I'm more tempted to try the KA than the Rhythm Chief, since it only mounts to the pickguard rather than the neck itself.

Now the other thing is that I'll need a pickguard, since I currently don't have one. Does anyone know how to order one from Eastman (with ebony binding), or, alternatively, does anyone know a good place to get an inexpensive pickguard that doesn't look inexpensive?

[omphalopsychos]

Ok I ordered a dearmond and a transducer (k&k definity). It will be a few weeks before everything is set up but I'll share results and post a demo of the different configurations.

[Rob MacKillop]

Sounds like a winning combination. Looking forward to your thoughts on it. Of course, the amp you put it all through will have an impact of the result, so what do you have?

[omphalopsychos]

Hi Rob, I have a 65 Fender Princeton Reissue with a Weber 10a150 alnico replacement speaker. So basically a Princeton with a warmer profile than usual. I also have a 1951 Valco Oahu, but I expect the Princeton to sound better blended into an acoustic mix.

[Rob MacKillop]

Sounds good already!

[Rob MacKillop]

Well, I've gone a different route, and have ordered a Benedetto-style S-6 floater from Aaron Armstrong (Kent's son) in England. £100, and one week waiting time. Designed with bronze strings in mind. It will replace the Bartolini floater. Fingers crossed!

[omphalopsychos]

Happy to hear you found something to try out too. I look forward to hearing what you think. My luthier has a bit of a back-log of work, so there's a chance you'll be set up before I am.

[Rob MacKillop]

I just don't know whether to opt for 250k pots, or 500k. Anyone got any advice on that?

[Cavalier]

500k won't hurt but 250k sometimes isn't enough for a humbucker.

[omphalopsychos]

500k won't hurt but 250k sometimes isn't enough for a humbucker.

Agreed. 500k is reasonable for a humbucker. If it sounds bright, you can back off the volume and tone a bit to have a sound like 250k pots. It beats the alternative of having a sound that's too muddy at even its brightest setting with no recourse.

[Rob MacKillop]

Thanks, guys. That's what I thought.

[Rob MacKillop]

Oops! I meant to say an S-6, not an A-5 pickup! Quite a different beast.

[Rob MacKillop]

Now confused re pots. This from Aaron Armstrong:

"500k for the volume 250k for the tone would be my suggestion, as for the cap, probably a .022 would be best, but as with all these things it's all about personal preference."

So, 250k for tone - but that tone could get muddy. 500k for volume and power to push a humbucker, but maybe colouring the tone?

[Doctor Jeff]

I have a DeArmond RC1000 reissue. It's a good pickup with a nice sound--definitely noisy if you have old tube and post wiring in your house, as are most single coil floaters...You can't adjust the pole pieces--not a big deal in my opinion. It looks better with my Harmony's silver parts than the 1100, which is gold.

BTW, the Schatten thumbwheel controls are 500K ohms.

I also have a GFS floater on a Godin 5th Avenue that sounds surprisingly good. Super cheap!

Re' strings D'Addario Pure Nickels are a good option. They have a mellow tone but work well with magnetic pickups.

[Cavalier]

Sounds like he wants to mellow some highs. I'm not familiar with the pickup so can't say one way or the other about how bright it is. It is a easy job to swap back and forth if you roll your own.

So much depends on the guitar and they are all different. I use the K&K Big Twins in about 3 guitars and don't have feedback problems until it gets really loud, then a good preamp with a notch filter can get you louder. On one of those I can blend with a magnetic but usually use them separately for distinctive tones.

[pcjazz]

With the Kent Armstrong single coil floater on my '53 D'Angelico I experimented with a wide range of acoustic strings and found that the newish D'Addario "nickel bronze" sets brought out the acoustic qualities of the unamplified guitar and worked well with the pickup. I didn't much care for the "zebra" strings or the "white bronze" (i.e. aluminum) sets. 80/20 bronze could be made to work but the nickel bronze are noticeably better through the amp and sound very good unamplified.

The tone control on this pickup provides a broad spectrum of tonalities from warm amplified acoustic through biting electric guitar sounds. With a good amp and cable and proper grounding there is minimal to no hum.

I am talking about Kent's handwound pickups here, not the Asian factory products branded with his name. But if you prefer the sound of a humbucker to a single coil you'll want to take my advice with a large grain of salt. I generally prefer the sound of single coil over humbucking pickups. While I have one of Kent's 14-pole humbuckers built into a 7-string Megas Athena (high-A) I mostly play it with the coil tap.

[omphalopsychos]

Now confused re pots. This from Aaron Armstrong:

"500k for the volume 250k for the tone would be my suggestion, as for the cap, probably a .022 would be best, but as with all these things it's all about personal preference."

So, 250k for tone - but that tone could get muddy. 500k for volume and power to push a humbucker, but maybe colouring the tone?

I'd go for two 500k pots and a .022?F cap. I even have that setup on a pair of p90s and it gives me all the range I need for that guitar. Here are two demos of said setup. Like I said, the worst case scenario is that you'll find your preferred sound is with volume around 7 and tone at 4.

[omphalopsychos]

With the Kent Armstrong single coil floater on my '53 D'Angelico I experimented with a wide range of acoustic strings and found that the newish D'Addario "nickel bronze" sets brought out the acoustic qualities of the unamplified guitar and worked well with the pickup. I didn't much care for the "zebra" strings or the "white bronze" (i.e. aluminum) sets. 80/20 bronze could be made to work but the nickel bronze are noticeably better through the amp and sound very good unamplified.

The tone control on this pickup provides a broad spectrum of tonalities from warm amplified acoustic through biting electric guitar sounds. With a good amp and cable and proper grounding there is minimal to no hum.

I am talking about Kent's handwound pickups here, not the Asian factory products branded with his name. But if you prefer the sound of a humbucker to a single coil you'll want to take my advice with a large grain of salt. I generally prefer the sound of single coil over humbucking pickups. While I have one of Kent's 14-pole humbuckers built into a 7-string Megas Athena (high-A) I mostly play it with the coil tap.

That's good news regarding the nickel bronze. I happen to like their acoustic sound. Warm like monel but deep and detailed like bronze.

[cosmic gumbo]

I'm not sure if this is relative, but since I hate the sound of piezo pups on acoustic flat top guitars, I've always performed with soundhole pups using typical 80/20 bronze acoustic strings, and have always loved the rich, balanced sound I got. One pup was a Bill Lawrence humbucker, the other a Duncan Performer single coil.

What's different about these magnetic pups that sound so awesome with acoustic strings? I measured the Duncan pup and the resistance was only 2.6k

I guess what I'm getting at is that if you're looking for an acoustic type sound vs electric sound, my logic is wouldn't most any floater do the trick with acoustic bronze strings?

[Rob MacKillop]

omphalopsychos - great videos! Another fan of the dark b&w video, I see :-) Nice playing, and Sid Jacobs' arrangements are wonderful.

Dr Jeff - well reminded: the Schatten thumbwheel controls are 500K ohms. That's what I have, so will stick with them.

[omphalopsychos]

omphalopsychos - great videos! Another fan of the dark b&w video, I see :-) Nice playing, and Sid Jacobs' arrangements are wonderful.

Dr Jeff - well reminded: the Schatten thumbwheel controls are 500K ohms. That's what I have, so will stick with them.

Rob, have you installed your KA yet? I'm eagerly waiting to hear how it sounds!

My pickups arrived on Tuesday, and I'll be dropping off my gear with my luthier this Friday. I've scoured the web and forums for recordings of the K&K Definity, and I must say I've been very impressed (both by the pickup sound and by Joe D's playing). I thought I'd share here in case anyone else is currently looking for amplification options for an acoustic archtop.

[Rob MacKillop]

Me? I'm getting a pickup from Aaron Armstrong, like the Benedetto S6, designed for bronze strings. It is being hand made for me, and should arrive in a few days' time, I believe. But then I'll have to get someone to attach it, after detaching the Bartolini. Might take me a couple more weeks to get it all sorted.

Joe D always sounds great!

[omphalopsychos]

Me? I'm getting a pickup from Aaron Armstrong, like the Benedetto S6, designed for bronze strings.

That's the one I meant. Keep us posted

[omphalopsychos]

Due to my lack of patience I did a temporary install of the definity, and it's fantastic. I played it through an eq (empress paraeq) into my audio interface (steinberg ur44), and I can already tell it's a winner. One thing to note is that it is a bit too mid-forward on its own, but with some eq it sounds extremely natural. Nothing like a typical piezo sound at all, which Is a relief. I haven't recorded yet but I will once everything is properly installed. Below is a snap of my eq.