Ibanez Scofield Guitars

[tomems]

I'm going through a big Scofield phase after seeing him last month (Country for Old Men) and subsequently examining Uberjam Deux more closely. Does anyone have any of these; better yet, has anyone played more than one?

$1099 Scofield
$2299 AS200
$2799 Scofield

[Lobomov]

.. subsequently examining Uberjam Deux more closely.

Sorry I haven't tried any of the sco ibanez guitars, but seen both the AS200 and the JSM10 used at fairly compeling prices (Never seen the JSM100 on the used marked, but I'm in a small country so. ..)


Anyways ... I couldn't help my self from saying the uberjam deux is Sco with a Tele and not the AS200

[tomems]

He definitely has a tele in those YouTubes, sounds great! I'm not in a tele mood, though...

[christianm77]

Ibanez tele tho?

[Gitfiddler]

I'm going through a big Scofield phase after seeing him last month (Country for Old Men) and subsequently examining Uberjam Deux more closely. Does anyone have any of these; better yet, has anyone played more than one?

$1099 Scofield
$2299 AS200
$2799 Scofield

I've owned an AS200, but sold it years ago. Still have a JSM100, which I prefer. I love the neck and compound radius of the latter. It just feels right. Also, I like that the input jack is located on the rim, not on the top. It is a high end semi and exudes it from every angle. Super 58 pickups sound great in it. I found that the tone is enhanced by using thicker gauge strings however.

Never played or owned one of the new JSM10's, but would like to. Hopefully someone who has experience with this cool guitar can chime in.

[Lobomov]

Ibanez tele tho?

Yeah .. I guess he doesn't want to piss off his endorser ... but hey, it's one of those 70s lawsuit ones with the proper headstock and all, no?

[joaopaz]

The best thing to do would be to go to the Ibanez site and load the specs of each guitar, side by side, on an excel worksheet. Compare each line to see what's changing from model to model.

I did that a while ago when I bought my AS153 and was surprised back then at how little change from that model up.

There are things that will be different for sure, but I think it's a good exercise.

Also, what you don't see there is the country that builds them. My AS153 is MIC but I'm not sure if all those above are already all MIJ.

Anyway, Ibanez has an easy website for this analysis stuff!

[tomems]

Do you like the AS153? Did you look at a Eastman or other MIC guitars?

[joaopaz]

Do you like the AS153? Did you look at a Eastman or other MIC guitars?

Love it. It's very well built, Ibanez quality style, the neck is sweet, stable and allows me to go with a super low action. I've it with Tomastik Infeld's .12s flatwound, but I had it during maybe a year with the George Benson's 14s and it was the same, no problems.
The minus side.... had to tighten the jack input a few times and the gold finish oxidated on the bridge really quick. I have other less expensive Ibanez guitars where it never happened...

As for other MIC, I tried many (many at home, more than I'd like to admit). But never an Eastman, no.

Would I buy this guitar again, sure. But probably would buy the JSM-10 now, just because of aesthetic reasons - I just checked and it's the exact same guitar, with a different finish and headstock.

[GNAPPI]

The best thing to do would be to go to the Ibanez site and load the specs of each guitar, side by side, on an excel worksheet. Compare each line to see what's changing from model to model.

I did that a while ago when I bought my AS153 and was surprised back then at how little change from that model up.

There are things that will be different for sure, but I think it's a good exercise.

Also, what you don't see there is the country that builds them. My AS153 is MIC but I'm not sure if all those above are already all MIJ.

Anyway, Ibanez has an easy website for this analysis stuff!

The Ibanez catalogs in .pdf are a great source of info too, and you're right, once you "max out" a design it gets hard to differentiate them and the 153 is about as "top of the line" as you can get.

Ibanez color schemes and models on their AS / semi hollow gits is a real moving target, I don't get it. What sane git maker would just discontinue a Cherry sunburst, black or natural finish? Unfortunately the AJD, AWD, AS103 and AS253 models are gone too, I guess this is good news for players that like to have unique gits.

[goldenwave77]

Looked at an Ibanez semi-hollow years ago (the one that Scofield played). Slightly smaller body than a 347, which is what I had at the time.

It sounded pretty similar to the 347, I remember thinking, and the guy wanted a lot of money at the time--more than I'd paid for the Norlin 347. It was a little less mid-rangey, and thuddy, more chimy sounding, and a bit thinner in tone, but still generally similar....with that semi-hollow tone that is somewhere between a true solid body and a true hollow-body. It looked nice, but I can't say the tone was anything that special.

I think semi-hollows are the Swiss Army knives of guitars...pretty good at lots of things, but not the best at any of them.

[Ray175]

If you can find an early 1980s AS200 with the early Super 58 pickups, then I suggest you give it serious consideration

It's likely to be a little north of 2k$, but well worth it in my view. The older one's don't often come up for sale because people keep them.

I've been trying to get one in Europe for the last couple of years, and the second I find one in good condition I'm pretty sure I will take it. It's a fine jazz box as JS has shown, but with the trisound switch (series HB, single coil, parallel HB) on the neck pickup it can successfully take you into other areas

[jim777]

I have an '81 AS-200, and it's a lovely guitar. I don't think you really need to get an old one though, they all seem to be very nice.

[335dotfan]

I tried a friend's AS200 back in the early 80s. It replaced his Norlin era Les Paul Custom and he says the Ibanez was much better than his Gibson.

I like both, honestly, but factory MIJ Ibanez AS200 is better than that era of Gibson in sheer ease of playability but otherwise I find Super 58s through a semi hollowbody not all that different sounding than my own old Les Paul Custom or his. Sure the solidbody Les Paul has longer sustain but the AS200 was pretty close.

The Les Paul has the better resale value, but the AS200 was just a better guitar than my Les Paul or a Norlin era ES-335 I used in the studio.

For my budget, if the same as golden era 80s Ibanez, I would think the MIJ AS200 is as good as anything out there and it covers most tones I expect from full hollowbody and with coil tap, can fulfill all of my solidbody sound needs. The Ibanez AS is a jack of all trades.

[TH]

We always have a chuckle over the new Sco Ibanezes when I see him. I'd known him from the days when he was still playing his Gibson 335 and it's a funny side note whenever the company issues a new signature model; they're good, but he's admitted that the old early 80's vintage ones were the ones that were "worth the effort of finding". I worked for Ibanez, he was always royalty there. He could get all the freebies he might ask for but he only needed his trusty stock 200.
But when he was kicking off the Country tour, he surprised me. "Check out the Chinese JSM10." he gave me an earnest look "Really. I like it even more than the Japanese one. It's a GOOD guitar!"
That's what the old man thinks. He should know.

David

[335dotfan]

If Scofield's new favorite is his Chinese one, it's not that crazy.

First off the Chinese builds have greatly improved, and this model has the Super 58s. And it's Scofield so any minute lack of quality compared to a MIJ Scofield will be compensated for by his technique and artistry.

And as many people who primarily make their living outside of music, like me and I suppose most of you, it's humbling when top rated, highly acclaimed jazz guitarists like Dney Bitencourt use a Chinese Artcore AFJ95 as their primary axe.

[dispersus]

About JSM10 neck.

At the specifications now appears as "JSM 3pc Mahogany/Maple set-in neck". However initially this model was "JSM Sapele set-in neck". Does anybody have some idea about why this change? What differences can exist between these two types of neck?

[TH]

Sapele is a dense wood, an African wood and it has enough kinship in quality, character and weight that it's a common substitute for Mahogany these days. It tends to be more predictable as far as density. I've worked with some Honduras Mahogany that was incredibly light, others that were dense almost like a rosewood or ebony. Both are close grain woods and in fact, Sapele is often referred as Sapele Mahogany.
Hah, yeah like baby chickens are referred as cornish game hens and tender beef is called veal. Or a Corolla with blinged out wheels can be called a sports car, or Patagonian toothfish being called a Chilean Sea Bass.
In this world of wood police and the Lacey Act, not to mention dwindling wood supplies and protected regrowth efforts, it may have been a good workable solution to get the public accustomed to alternative woods. Certainly a stable neck on a nice stock Scofield guitar goes a long way towards establishing credibility in a new wood.

David

[denis]

I have a jsm10 and it really is a great guitar. Love the neck, and the fret ends are definitely the smoothest I've ever played.
The pickups are not the same on jsm10 and jsm100 despite the same name (the part numbers are different) but they sound really nice.

The bridge and tailpiece oxidized very quickly, after about 1 month of use, but I replaced them with Gotoh parts. Everything else is superb.

[agentsmith]

i've played them all . The japanese ones are very heavy. I think you can get the same vibe from a 339 which is much lighter and you can find used 339s for $1500

[dispersus]

Sapele is a dense wood, an African wood and it has enough kinship in quality, character and weight that it's a common substitute for Mahogany these days. It tends to be more predictable as far as density. I've worked with some Honduras Mahogany that was incredibly light, others that were dense almost like a rosewood or ebony. Both are close grain woods and in fact, Sapele is often referred as Sapele Mahogany.
Hah, yeah like baby chickens are referred as cornish game hens and tender beef is called veal. Or a Corolla with blinged out wheels can be called a sports car, or Patagonian toothfish being called a Chilean Sea Bass.
In this world of wood police and the Lacey Act, not to mention dwindling wood supplies and protected regrowth efforts, it may have been a good workable solution to get the public accustomed to alternative woods. Certainly a stable neck on a nice stock Scofield guitar goes a long way towards establishing credibility in a new wood.

David

Hi David

I really appreciate your information about sapele, but regarding that now it seems JSM10 is 3pc mahogany/maple. What you think may be better? In terms of strenght better 3 pcs m/m - in terms of sound better 1pc sapele?

In terms of tone, It could be warmer sound for sapele neck vs. slightly brilliant for mahogany-maple?

[TH]

Hi David

I really appreciate your information about sapele, but regarding that now it seems JSM10 is 3pc mahogany/maple. What you think may be better? In terms of strenght better 3 pcs m/m - in terms of sound better 1pc sapele?

In terms of tone, It could be warmer sound for sapele neck vs. slightly brilliant for mahogany-maple?

Wow, that's a real "opinion" question. That's all I can ever offer, my own opinion.
The softer woods like sapele and mahogany have a marked warmth IN MY EAR and I do seek guitars with solid mahogany because of that. Compared with a solid maple neck, it's my preference. It's good in the hand.
But a long piece of wood, especially on a double cutaway has a long piece of real estate to find the natural twists that the wood may have had. That, and the fact they can't inspect EACH piece for absolute true and straight grain, and the thin profile of that gorgeous neck contour... the maple stablized laminate, the ability to counter a twist by countering a neck twist with a twist in the opposite direction and the complimentary blend of wood properties... well I have a mahogany maple 3 piece in the custom instrument I play. Yes it's my preference.
You know why Sco plays an Ibanez? He had a gorgeous 335, Gibson. Solid mahogany neck. It went out over the years and became unplayable. He loved that guitar but it did what many 335's do; it went bad.
The Ibanez? Still the same one he's played since the early 80's. And he plays it a lot.
Hard thing to anticipate but a multi wood neck has it when it comes to stability if it's built with good wood.
My opinion
David

[lapideusvir]

Also consider the AM200. It´s the "little sister" of the AS200. A bit darker sounding and very nice!

[m_d]

So are you saying those 335 necks are 1-piece designs? Which 335s are like that and which are not? I thought 3-piece necks were standard on most if not all modern higher-end guitars. Ibanez has them on their $500 models. On my Eastman 335 imitation, the maple neck definitely looks like it's of 3 pieces. Another question, does the instability you mention come more from the softer nature of mahogany, or the 1-piece design, or the combination of both?

Wow, that's a real "opinion" question. That's all I can ever offer, my own opinion.
The softer woods like sapele and mahogany have a marked warmth IN MY EAR and I do seek guitars with solid mahogany because of that. Compared with a solid maple neck, it's my preference. It's good in the hand.
But a long piece of wood, especially on a double cutaway has a long piece of real estate to find the natural twists that the wood may have had. That, and the fact they can't inspect EACH piece for absolute true and straight grain, and the thin profile of that gorgeous neck contour... the maple stablized laminate, the ability to counter a twist by countering a neck twist with a twist in the opposite direction and the complimentary blend of wood properties... well I have a mahogany maple 3 piece in the custom instrument I play. Yes it's my preference.
You know why Sco plays an Ibanez? He had a gorgeous 335, Gibson. Solid mahogany neck. It went out over the years and became unplayable. He loved that guitar but it did what many 335's do; it went bad.
The Ibanez? Still the same one he's played since the early 80's. And he plays it a lot.
Hard thing to anticipate but a multi wood neck has it when it comes to stability if it's built with good wood.
My opinion
David

[TH]

So are you saying those 335 necks are 1-piece designs? Which 335s are like that and which are not?

.

I really can't say what the history of necks on 335's are, for sure there are those on the forum who know their Gibson histories better than I. I can say that as a builder, and having done my share of restorations and Gibson neck repairs, mahogany necks have been an important part of their warmth, and they have also contributed to the early retirement of many a gorgeous sounding double cutaways.

Mahogany, unlike maple, has a very uniform grain structure; the lateral stability of the wood in the slab cut can be nearly as stable as the stability cut on the quarter. Skew cut is the least desirable, that is, wood with the grain line cut on an angle. Now when you take a neck cut on the skew, and join it with the grain on the opposite skew, it tends to counteract the effect of the twist. When you inlay a centre piece cut on the quarter, and when you use a very stable and hard wood cut on the quarter, like a silk grained maple centre piece, you've got a very stable neck. Long ago instituted on classical guitars where there is no truss rod and mahogany is the choice of woods, you'll see inlays of ebony. It looks like a lighter coloured wood with a black stripe down the middle.

It's a SOP in Asian production guitars where you can get stability and economy (long straight and true mahogany is the filet mignon of the tree's cut and account for a small percentage of the tree's yield), and a good neck with the widest range of a wood supply simply by matching and counteracting twisting tendencies through lamination.

That's the general idea. So if you can get lighter (and in these cases) warmer sounding woods, check their twisting propensities with a lamination and build it well with a good fingerboard and truss rod, you can get the best of all (strength, stability, economy) worlds.

I see this in the Ibanez guitars (some, not all... don't get me started on their practice of switching factories). Sometimes their use of harder woods does give them more "edge" than on the vocal sounding mahogany (I admit that vintage Gibsons took a LOT of trouble in good wood choice. It's more expensive to be so picky about individual cuts of wood but it's one reason they're more expensive) so keep this in mind when you compare specs.
But ALWAYS try an instrument out when you can, and the more you do it, the more you'll be able to recognize that "one" when you see it. I worked at Ibanez and saw maybe thousands of guitars in my time and every once in a while I'd come across one the defied specs and was among the best I'd ever played, and sometimes it wasn't even on a high end guitar. Luck of the cut and the unpredictable character of a living diversity of wood.
Know your woods, recognize the character (I always check the grain orientation on a neck by looking at grain lines at the top of a headstock) and know the advice of the authorities that inform you.
Sco says "That's a good guitar", I trust him.

David