Gibson Herb Ellis ES-165 with Floating pickup vs ES-137

Dutchbopper · 02-24-2017, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I think the 165 sounds...well...I can't tell. Sounds like it has light strings and the guy really isn' playing in a jazz style...and does he ever play a chord?

His style is faux jazz. You feed a few jazz chords into a loop station - he knows about 3 - and then the great blues noodling begins.

He is clever though. I think he's selling quite a few guitars this way. Funny, all his guitars sound the same.

**mr. beaumont** · 02-24-2017, 11:51 AM

Yeah, I don't wanna rag on another player, I just don't think these demos do much for someone who wants to buy the guitar to play jazz on.

It's like that on youtube...try finding a demo of any amp that's actually "clean." And youtube sound is compressed in the first place.

Ah, nobody understands us. First world problems

Dutchbopper · 02-24-2017, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Yeah, I don't wanna rag on another player, I just don't think these demos do much for someone who wants to buy the guitar to play jazz on. Ah, nobody understands us. First world problems

Well, since these are all commercial videos, the truth must be stated. The level of jazz guitar demoing is deplorable in most cases. I sometimes want to hear what a guitar sounds like and then I type in the model and I invariably get some rock player demoing it with some metal licks. The sound is never what I want to hear either. Kind of frustrating.

DB

**Max405** · 02-24-2017, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I think the 165 sounds...well...I can't tell. Sounds like it has light strings and the guy really isn' playing in a jazz style...and does he ever play a chord?

Now, Joe on the solid formed sounds great. I thought those guitars were stupidly overpriced, but it sounds great.

Thanks Jeff. That means a lot coming from a player who's talent I admire big-time.

This is not the 1st time I've heard lukewarm reviews about the floater 165. When I bought my 165, that Lawson now owns, I was tempted to get the floater version, but I didn't much see the point of a floater on a laminated top, not exactly the recipe for the deeper sound I was after. They are beautiful, especially in Ice Tea Burst.

JD

**mr. beaumont** · 02-24-2017, 12:46 PM

Yeah, I've never really understood the idea of a floater on a laminate...although, I have heard some decent sounding laminate archtops...so I guess I shouldn't jump to a conclusion.

But generally, modern 175's are built pretty heavy, not really acoustic machines, and I'm assuming Gibson isn't making the 165's differently...but I could be wrong.

**lawson-stone** · 02-24-2017, 01:13 PM

I will certainly speak up in favor of the ES165 with the routed in pickup! That Gibson 490R set in to the classic Gibson "hefty" laminated body has a solid sound that's also sweet. I love the heft of a Gibson archtop, and the ES165 from the 90's has it.

**Piedaddy** · 02-24-2017, 02:21 PM

I'm lucky to own both an older 165 with the set pickup and a 137 Custom. Nice guitars. I play both in a jazz setting but the hollow body 165 is hard for me to control feedback issues when I play in a large band setting. A lot of that is probably on me but I also like the varitone I can use on the 137C. Also the 137 is pretty heavy with the solid center block and that could be a real issue for folks. On the 165 I like to use Rotosound Top Tapes which give it a great dark sound.

**goldenwave77** · 02-24-2017, 05:46 PM

Also check out Olli Back on YT playing "When Sunny Gets Blue". Great sound.

And Joe DeNisco is too modest to toot his own horn, but he is a great player and is playing "Night and Day" on YT with the humbucker 165.

I think these both show why people prize a 165. (I better stop watching myself, or I'll be shopping for one.)

**videorov** · 02-25-2017, 12:41 AM

Also looking at the Ibanez GB10 George Benson two floating pickups.

**videorov** · 02-25-2017, 01:32 AM

Or also the Ibanez GB40THII or the GB10.

**rio** · 02-25-2017, 01:34 AM

The gb10 is a great guitar and it has a lot of love on the forums from what I have read. I would still be playing mine if I did not run it over with my car.

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**Herbie** · 02-25-2017, 02:37 AM

The ES-165 w/ a floater was my first decent jazz guitar. Loved to play it but not so much to listen it! Very thin.
I had it for about 5 years and had at least 6 different pickups in it.

Then I bought a ES-137 Classic (not Custom that has a Varitone). Loved to play and hear too! Changed the pu's to Seth Lovers and it was perfect. Although it has a maple neck which I do not normally always like.

Then it started to feel heavy. I am used to Les Pauls but they are smaller, and the weight is somehow different.

At last I tried an ES-175 VOS 1PU and fell in love in its lightness and resonance. Sold the 165 & 137.

Afterwards I think that everything could have been simpler if I had at first bought an ES-165 with a full humbucker. I could still play it!

The Wes model has a longer scale so it sounds and specially feels different.

Never had experience in Benson Ibanezes. When I am rich and famous I'll buy one of them too!

Good luck in Your quest! I would recommend getting an ES-165 w/ full humbucker. Or a nice ES-175. Start with one of them and if You want to move on, You'll know the direction by then.

**Max405** · 02-25-2017, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by goldenwave77

Also check out Olli Back on YT playing "When Sunny Gets Blue". Great sound.

And Joe DeNisco is too modest to toot his own horn, but he is a great player and is playing "Night and Day" on YT with the humbucker 165.

I think these both show why people prize a 165. (I better stop watching myself, or I'll be shopping for one.)

thanks buddy.
The 165 is a terrific guitar. Despite all this talk about the floater 165 not being so good, I'd still like to spend some time with one. I have a feeling it would be a great guitar. It's still 24-3/4, and the top should sound different. One of those perfect guitars to blend the sound acoustically and with an amp 15 feet away.
Joe D

**lawson-stone** · 02-25-2017, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by rio

The gb10 is a great guitar and it has a lot of love on the forums from what I have read. I would still be playing mine if I did not run it over with my car.

OUCH! That had to hurt...

**videorov** · 02-25-2017, 01:15 PM

Or also the Ibanez GB40THII 40th $1499 and limited runThe GB40TH features a Flamed Maple top, back and sides for $4000
and I wonder if they would sound the same??

Then there is the older GB100 . I saw some guys in Japan playing the GB100 and it sounds good. Little hard to find now.

I wonder if they are making the pick guards thet same way. The old ones seem to fall apart?

**rio** · 02-25-2017, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

OUCH! That had to hurt...

It sucked immensely! It was the first nice guitar I had - I was working for a looong time in a coffee shop in high school to buy a good jazz guitar and a local store at a yearly clearance even that I stood 7 hours in like outside for. I left with a blonde Gb10 and boy did I love it. After a gig I put it in the back of my car. Unbeknownst to me the drummer took the guitar out to fit in his drums and didn't put it back in the car - it was leaning against the back of my keep and and I got in to back up a bit to make it easier to load things in and cruuuunch it went under the tires. It was totaled and one of the most horrible feelings I have ever experienced emotionally. The only part that was not broken was the fretboard which I still have hanging on my wall today 21 years later. It is buried in my parents back yard (had a funeral service for it haha)

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**goldenwave77** · 02-25-2017, 03:06 PM

Sh....don't tell George Benson.

This might be like voodoo...sticking pins into a doll.

**videorov** · 02-25-2017, 03:21 PM

WOW WOW what a way for it to go. Hope you get another some day.

Originally Posted by rio

It sucked immensely! It was the first nice guitar I had - I was working for a looong time in a coffee shop in high school to buy a good jazz guitar and a local store at a yearly clearance even that I stood 7 hours in like outside for. I left with a blonde Gb10 and boy did I love it. After a gig I put it in the back of my car. Unbeknownst to me the drummer took the guitar out to fit in his drums and didn't put it back in the car - it was leaning against the back of my keep and and I got in to back up a bit to make it easier to load things in and cruuuunch it went under the tires. It was totaled and one of the most horrible feelings I have ever experienced emotionally. The only part that was not broken was the fretboard which I still have hanging on my wall today 21 years later. It is buried in my parents back yard (had a funeral service for it haha)

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**lawson-stone** · 02-25-2017, 03:26 PM

I hope you gave your drummer a nice funeral!

Originally Posted by rio

It sucked immensely! It was the first nice guitar I had - I was working for a looong time in a coffee shop in high school to buy a good jazz guitar and a local store at a yearly clearance even that I stood 7 hours in like outside for. I left with a blonde Gb10 and boy did I love it. After a gig I put it in the back of my car. Unbeknownst to me the drummer took the guitar out to fit in his drums and didn't put it back in the car - it was leaning against the back of my keep and and I got in to back up a bit to make it easier to load things in and cruuuunch it went under the tires. It was totaled and one of the most horrible feelings I have ever experienced emotionally. The only part that was not broken was the fretboard which I still have hanging on my wall today 21 years later. It is buried in my parents back yard (had a funeral service for it haha)

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