Are Digital Modelers Killing Tube Amps?

**NSJ** · 02-17-2017, 04:55 PM

**jorgemg1984** · 02-17-2017, 07:24 PM

Very interesting read. I went the modelling route and never looked back.

**GNAPPI** · 02-17-2017, 08:42 PM

Yes definitely the same way solid state killed them in the 60's, 70's and up. NOT :-)

People who write those articles are nothing more than talking heads wanting page hits.

**jorgemg1984** · 02-17-2017, 08:45 PM

Why? Most gigging pros I know use modellers these days, that never happened with SS.

**GNAPPI** · 02-17-2017, 09:03 PM

No??? I remember the Sunn amps (Colliseum ?)and the Acoustic 360 (forgot the maker?)Being used A LOT. Modelling amps are around since the line 6 in the 90's tube amps are still around no?

Both above are out of business

**GNAPPI** · 02-17-2017, 09:28 PM

Some thoughts on "pros"

Let's separate the chaff...

Pros who make money at their art and may have a day job, or may eek out a living playing full time, and then there are pros who get their name slathered on guitars and amps and have endorsement money.

Big time Pros do not have to carry their gear, roadies do... and they have backups for everything on stage. I don't think big time pros are using modellers. If so show me, not one ALL of them, by the dozens.

Then there's the combo groups, small 4-5 maybe more players and they rely on modellers to blend genres. They likely carry their own gear, and need reliability. Unless they have Line 6 stuff they have it all, portability and reliability.

"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated"

I didn't coin the phrase but it's appropriate here, there's no self fulfilling prophesy yelling modellers are taking over, buyers make those decisions not article writers.

For all their shortcomings tube amps are here to stay. Let our grand kids discuss this in some 40 years :-)

**jorgemg1984** · 02-17-2017, 09:36 PM

Tube amps will remain, and the article does not say they won't -- so I don't get the "People who write those articles are nothing more than talking heads wanting page hits."

What they claim in the article is true, in my experience - if you gig and record a lot, modelling is the perfect solution and most people who do that, have turned in that direction. Consistency of tone, alone, would be a reason - but there are many others.

**citizenk74** · 02-17-2017, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

No??? I remember the Sunn amps (Colliseum ?)and the Acoustic 360 (forgot the maker?)Being used A LOT. Modelling amps are around since the line 6 in the 90's tube amps are still around no?

Both above are out of business

(Slightly off topic). This jogged my memory - I had a Sunn Colliseum head running through a Traynor BassMate cabinet with 6 10" speakers playing in a power trio - the amp had a distortion switch, but mostly I played it clean, driving it with my trusty '68 Les Paul Custom strung 0.15 - 0.60. I sold the head and cab to the guy who was replacing me in a subsequent band for two hundred bucks, which would have offset the cost of my brownface VibroVerb, which I still have. I was so happy with that amp that I completely forgot to actually get the dough. Thirty-five years later, I get a check in the mail with a note of apology. I had assessed him at the time as a right guy. I guess I guessed right.
Anyway, the Colliseum was an impressive amp - clean and mean all the way up - though the BassMate's 10s were exhibiting some, uhh... non-linearities by the fourth set. Good times!

**JWK1** · 02-17-2017, 10:24 PM

Tube amps are dying. Modelers are not killing them. They are dying all by themselves. We need modelers and SS amps to take their place. I do not know when tube amps will die, but die they will. It is nothing but denial to think otherwise.

I love tube amps. I like good SS amps and modelers. I still think nothing sounds and responds like a good tube amp. I make tube amps. I mod tube amps. No matter how much I love them, they will go away. Maybe not in my lifetime, but they cannot last. Do research on the manufacturing process of vacuum tubes. That should explain it.

The article (IMO) is just typical fluffy-puffy, no research journalism.

**GNAPPI** · 02-18-2017, 12:20 AM

"Tube amps will remain, and the article does not say they won't -- so I don't get the "People who write those articles are nothing more than talking heads wanting page hits."

Didn't the writer title the article: "Are Digital Modelers Killing Tube Amps?"

If I wrote that type of article title about buggy whips, or hand crank to start cars, or kick start motorcycles, drum brakes, Glass tube color TV, casette recorders and more would I not be prognosticating their demise?

AND...

"On the other hand, modeling technology does seem to be grabbing an increasingly large share of the market as well as the attention of many players"

The was thrown around by "talking heads" about SS years ago. The fact is it is true then and now so what? Those articles... ANY articles, Internet articles are written by talking heads... They used to try and get ad revenue for shiny colored magazines now it's the net, what's not to "Get" ? :-)

Also after quoting TWO bands that use modellers...(likely incomplete selective information I may add) which it seems only the talking head knows because the rest of the talking heads do not agree, see quoted links below.

"Doesn't that indicate the demise of big, bulky, high-maintenance old-school amps?

THE ARTICLE DOES NOT SAY THEY (tube amps) WON'T??? Maybe someone needs a course in remedial reading and comprehension and it's not me, maybe the talking heads that write this crap?

BTW, James Hetfield of Metallica uses (unless other articles are wrong or hopelessly outdated) Mesa boogie amps, Dave Mustaine of Megadeth uses MANY amps including a few Marshall TUBE amps or other sites are wrong. If so Mea Culpa.

See:
James Hetfield's Guitar Gear, Amps & Pedalboard | Equipboard(R)
Dave Mustaine's Guitars and Gear - GroundGuitar

Because anyone buys ONE amp of ONE type is NOT a complete unequivocal endorsement of that type? Maybe, just maybe?

Like I said, "Let our grand kids discuss this in some 40 years" which they probably will.

**Thumpalumpacus** · 02-18-2017, 05:38 AM

So long as I've got some glass, I'm good. I don't really care which big name plays which amp/sim/modeler. Sims and modelers can sound damned close to the original, so close that many of us would be hard-pressed to do a blindfold test ... until we have a guitar in our hands. Because how a digital interface reacts with the strings under our touch is pretty different than how a hot filament works it.

I used to have an RP-series programmable that had a killer BF Deluxe sim on it, and enjoyed the hell out of pumping the neck p/u from my Strat into it. That's the only digital tone I've ever played that I loved. Tubes, on the other hand -- gosh, there's so many I love that I'd have to win the lottery to hope to buy all of them.

**cmajor9** · 02-18-2017, 06:40 AM

Modeling amps have become 'realistic' enough that they offer a good value proposition to a lot of amateur, semi-pro, and pro players. Some of those folks may also use tube amps (for example, modeling in the studio and tube on tour). But the current market for tube amps, from the big companies to many boutique builders and modders seems quite healthy, with no sign of "dying" in the foreseeable future. For the present (and maybe until tubes become much more scarce than now) it seems both will coexist, each serving a set of musicians' needs.

**vinlander** · 02-18-2017, 08:23 AM

IMHO not until the user manual of modellers is as thin as a typical tube amp.
Plug and play your instrument vs plug and play with endless menu and settings, sometimes less is more.
The one thing I love about the cube over most modellers is not its superior tone quality but its straightforwardness.
When cube style modellers really start sounding as good as a Kemper or AxFX then they will really take over.

**jorgemg1984** · 02-18-2017, 08:26 AM

It's coming

Atomic Amplifiers Introduces the Ampli-Firebox | Premier Guitar

**Klatu** · 02-18-2017, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

It's coming

Atomic Amplifiers Introduces the Ampli-Firebox | Premier Guitar

Thanks. Being that I'm the type of guy who is put off by the complicated nature of rack units, this may end up being my first foray into the world of modeling amps.

**jorgemg1984** · 02-18-2017, 10:37 AM

Just to be honest - Im not a fan of the Amplifire Fender modelling for jazz cleans. Product is brilliant, though...

**Jabberwocky** · 02-18-2017, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

It's coming

Atomic Amplifiers Introduces the Ampli-Firebox | Premier Guitar

That's the ticket; hope it does a great tubey clean.

**Jabberwocky** · 02-18-2017, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Just to be honest - Im not a fan of the Amplifire Fender modelling for jazz cleans. Product is brilliant, though...

Well, dang...

**vernon** · 02-18-2017, 12:05 PM

Are Digital Modelers Killing Tube Amps?

Well, I certainly hope not! I'm against killing in all its forms. I want my grandkids to be able to feel the magic of vacuum tube goodness.

**jorgemg1984** · 02-18-2017, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

Well, dang...

Some people love it, though. Im considering having a friend build me a Polytone preamp with digital reverb and digital cab emulation... just to prove it can be done

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 02-18-2017, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by vinlander

IMHO not until the user manual of modellers is as thin as a typical tube amp.
Plug and play your instrument vs plug and play with endless menu and settings, sometimes less is more.
The one thing I love about the cube over most modellers is not its superior tone quality but its straightforwardness.
When cube style modellers really start sounding as good as a Kemper or AxFX then they will really take over.

Maybe we need the Apple iAmp.

And it's all relative. Talk to a hard core folk guitarist.

**Jabberwocky** · 02-18-2017, 05:53 PM

Not too bad:

But the Katana 100 is hard to beat at lower than half the Amplifire 12 price, especially if you're not a knob...twiddling twiddler.

**Jabberwocky** · 02-18-2017, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

...Talk to a hard core folk guitarist.

I did and them Muthafookers banned me for "trolling, brand-bashing, profanity and rudeness."

They'd ban Miles, too.

**medblues** · 02-18-2017, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by vinlander

IMHO not until the user manual of modellers is as thin as a typical tube amp.
Plug and play your instrument vs plug and play with endless menu and settings, sometimes less is more.
The one thing I love about the cube over most modellers is not its superior tone quality but its straightforwardness.
When cube style modellers really start sounding as good as a Kemper or AxFX then they will really take over.

I think Yamaha (THR100HD) is attempting that. No menus, programming or presets. Just some power tube types and preamp styles. You can get it sound great without hooking it up to your computer.