Choosing a Fender Telecaster for Jazz

[joaopaz]

These threads are so dangerous... just pulled the trigger on a new G&L Tribute Asat Classic, in tobacco sunburst.

Price-wise this is Classic Vibe territory. It will be interesting to compare it with my Fender American Special .. honestly I'm hoping for better.

[matt.guitarteacher]

These threads are so dangerous... just pulled the trigger on a new G&L Tribute Asat Classic, in tobacco sunburst.

Price-wise this is Classic Vibe territory. It will be interesting to compare it with my Fender American Special .. honestly I'm hoping for better.

Man down! :-)

[joaopaz]

Man down! :-)

Right on!

[Jonah]

Today I went to another shop... they had cheap Squiers (must be about usd 250 in US) and a few Fenders for the price of 5 or 6 Squiers...

these Squiers looked ok... but I felt immediately the cheap guiatr in my hands (I probably got used for better ones during past few years)... the neck, the frets need to be polished... not that it is extremely bad, but really inconvienient.
Real Fender felt much better, smooth and comfortable of course but the dimenstions and all seemed the same...
I am not sure I should compare the sound - obviously the pu's are different.. but still both guitars had that big sound range which is (in my understanding characteristic for Teles): from very dark warm tone to extremely bright and sharp... but Fender tone was much better.

I tried two Fenders American Pro and anotehr one I did not rememeber (it was a bit cheaper). I liked American Pro better... but it seemed to me that even considering new pu's and all the work needed for Squier - the gap in price is too big.. (especially here, where the price on the instruments depends on currency rate, and local luthiers work is paid in local currency)

So far I likes FGN I saw yesterday the best... the neck is different (more Japanese))) but the whole guitar felt very integral and smoothe, and the pickups were all right at least for the begininig... the price is about usd 450-500 I think

[Jonah]

These threads are so dangerous... just pulled the trigger on a new G&L Tribute Asat Classic, in tobacco sunburst.

Price-wise this is Classic Vibe territory. It will be interesting to compare it with my Fender American Special .. honestly I'm hoping for better.

Hm.. I should check it too... on thomann it's below EUR500

[goldenwave77]

The genius of Leo F. is that he figured out how to make a playable, well-designed instrument cheaply.

Take a solid piece of wood, or glued together pieces, cut out the shape on a bandsaw, and polish the edges, and then rout the cavities with a template. Even by hand, it can't take a long time, and with jigs and robotic cutting, probably the basic cutting and routing work can't take more than a few minutes to do.

I almost think a lot of fancy finishes, esp. the "car color" finishes that Fender went to in the mid-60's, were a step in the wrong direction. I also think heavy plasticized finishes, often found on cheaper instruments, can't be helpful.

[joaopaz]

Hm.. I should check it too... on thomann it's below EUR500

Yep, that's where I got mine

I'll let you know, somewhere next week. But if this is going to be like my G&L Strat, it will be a winner. Traded a Mex Fender Jaguar FSR for it and never looked back.

[Greentone]

Telecasters! Opinions really vary on these. Just remember, Barney Kessel, Howard Roberts, Herb Ellis, and others were playing regular, 50s maple-neck white guard Telecasters in the West Coast studios on all of the recordings they made. (Tommy Tedesco, too.) We have all heard these songs. They've been on the radio, etc., for the past 55 years.

For the most part, all of these guys were playing 7.25" radius fretboard, maple neck/maple board, single-coil, Telecasters and making them sound like whatever was called for. As Ed Bickert and others have demonstrated, you can make the humble Telecaster in its mid-50s to mid-60s form perform as an awesome jazz instrument. (Eric Clapton, Michael Bloomfield, Jeff Beck, and Jimmy Page, of course, demonstrated that you can take this _same_ guitar and make it perform as an awesome hard rock instrument.)

I was spoiled by the fact that my very first "Tele" was a '57 Esquire. I only owned it briefly because I talked myself out of a single-pickup guitar. (most idiotic guitar move I ever made) However, that guitar set the mold for how a Telecaster should feel, play, and sound, IMO. Every Tele I have owned since has been an attempt to recover the feel and sound of my Esquire. (Youth IS wasted on the young.)

Folks that came up playing on flatter radiused boards will like the more modern Telecasters. Me? I MUCH prefer the traditional design. This is easily accomplished with a MIJ Telecaster, a MIM Telecaster, or some of the MIC Squiers. These would be my preferences.

[Greentone]

I should have written "on many of the recordings they made in the West Coast studios" because sometimes Kessel, Roberts, Ellis, and Tedesco used archtop, flattop, or nylon guitars. LOTS of Telecasters though.

[mje]

I recently bought a Vintage VT52 at a good price. I think it's an excellent value; one of the best, if not the best tele-style guitars I've owned. I sold my Mexi-caster after playing the VT52 for a few days. I think I paid just under $400 for it.

Trev Wilkinson, who sells these, has a higher end line called Fret King that are worth looking into as well. They run closer to a grand. There's a Jerry Donahue signature model that has a lot of interesting features.

[Jonah]

The genius of Leo F. is that he figured out how to make a playable, well-designed instrument cheaply.

Take a solid piece of wood, or glued together pieces, cut out the shape on a bandsaw, and polish the edges, and then rout the cavities with a template. Even by hand, it can't take a long time, and with jigs and robotic cutting, probably the basic cutting and routing work can't take more than a few minutes to do.

I almost think a lot of fancy finishes, esp. the "car color" finishes that Fender went to in the mid-60's, were a step in the wrong direction. I also think heavy plasticized finishes, often found on cheaper instruments, can't be helpful.

I noticed that American Teles are... I do not know a correct word... a bit crude... like a piece of wood and a log bolted to it... (the fact it is really bolted even increases this feeling)... but I like that. It's kind of style too... like some old American cars.

At the same time I noticed that on newer American Teles it goes a little bit too far... on old guitars you could feel it was a conception of it, even kind of aesthetics maybe.... on modern sometimes it feels just like negligence.

[goldenwave77]

The amount of woodworking expertise and labor involved in a mortise and tenon type joint, in a traditional instrument is far, far greater than with the bolt-on neck.

Supposedly, Leo's original notion was that players would (or could) disassemble their necks easily. Bill Kirchen, who is a MONSTER tele player, has threaded neck bolts, and I've heard that he travels with his trusty tele this way, without regular instrument cases, and having to buy an extra plane seat, etc. (Go check out some Bill Kirchen posts--the way the guy plays.... he is just one with the instrument. And then check out Junior Brown, in case one instrument is not challenging enough for you.)

The bolt-on neck is almost infinitely adjustable with shims, easily replaced, is cheap to produce, and very rugged. I don't think Fender necks break at the headstock like a Gibson-style neck can, and even if it did, just slap on a new one for $149 (or less), and you're good to go.

[MaxTwang]

Threaded inserts are a great solution for players who do a lot of fly gigs - a Strat or Tele with the neck removed and a small & light amp sim + effects would make a great carry-on fly rig.

[mje]

I've also read that Leo's idea was that a bolt on neck facilitated warranty service. They could easily swap in a new neck or body.

[goldenwave77]

Good point re: warranty claims, but my guess is these were probably minimal.

I heard a rumor Fender might be offering a new signature model, the "Jack Reacher" Relic-model. It comes with instructions for the Tele's proper use in clearing out miscreants from a barroom, or honky-tonk, and has a special section on the neck with notches cut into it, for each bad guy taken out.

[joaopaz]

My problem with Fender guitars (not Squier, though) has always been the neck.

Most of the times I use flatwound strings, .012 gauge; once I asked one top USA luthier/builder about that and he told me any Tele should be able to handle this gauge without problems. So I went for it... (truth is, I went even before I asked, but I wanted to be sure).

I don't know why but with all my Fender guitars I experienced the same thing: with time, after a couple of years, I was still able to keep a straight neck but I had to keep lowering the saddles to maintain the same action on these guitars.
It was a strange thing: I was able to adjust to truss rod to a straight neck (I like them with little relief as possible) but somehow, something was changing... and after some time I ran out of space under the saddles, I reached the limit.

My guess is that maybe they started to give in somewhere in the neck pocket. I'm far from sure... but the fact is that these guitars always transmitted me a great sense of insecurity about their neck stability.

This was true with a Fender American Special (USA), a Fender Road Worn 50's (MEX, but the most expensive in the pack) and a Fender Jaguar FSR (MEX).

Strange thing, I never experienced it with my other Teles: a Fender Modern Player (MIC), two Squiers from the Vintage Modified series, and four other Teles: SX, Peavey, Squier Standard and a Partscaster.

Furthermore:

American Special:
Overall a nice guitar while I was never sold to the greasebucket circuitry.
Main problem: the truss rod reached its (short) limit quickly and I either had to force it somewhat or live with some neck relief; plus, I think their system is what's called biflex... it has a small piece of wood where the allen wrench goes in that makes it a nightmare for luthiers to access the truss rod if required.

Road Worn 50s:
Loads of mojo, and a wonderful sound. Light as a feather.
Main problem: no matter what saddles I tried the guitar was never in tune. Also the access to the truss rod near the neck pickup is a pain... having to remove the neck each time you need to adjust.

Fender Modern Player (chinese):
Wonderful neck. Great sound on the neck PU. The bridge pickup with it's split coil was the worst pickup I ever had on a guitar. Also the hardware was the worst piece of junk I ever found on one of my guitars. Everything started to fall apart in real short time... severe oxidation on the neck PU, the chromed ring of the bridge PU was made of plastic after all... the jack input, the volume and tone knobs falling off, the crackling switch.

Jaguar FSR, not a Tele so I'll leave this one out.

Squier Vintage Modified Series:
I had two of them.
Wonderful guitars, almost perfect.
No problems whatsoever with the necks as their Fender counterparts, but both Vintage Modified had problems with the poly finish, both developing serious (poly) cracks on the neck.

The other Teles are the ones I still play. They had their share of issues, but nothing like the ones mentioned above ... and since I payed an average of $150 I can't complain.

..

On a side note (not Tele related) : I had a Strat Classic Vibe. It was wonderful, even perfect guitar, were it not for the tremolo that was unusable.
I also have a Squier Affinity Bass, the beginning of the Squier line, the most inexpensive of the pack and it's one of my more trusty guitars.

...

To finish I must say this:
This may be only a series of bad coincidences with my personal experience with Fender. I'm not pretending that my humble experience with their guitars is representative in any way.... but the fact of the matter is that I will never again buy a Fender guitar.

[Jonah]

Another cheap Tele I found.. Vintage Icon V52MRBS (V52 Series). About EUR250.
They use Chinese woods but good Wilkinson hardware.

I cannot try it but I own Vintage all-solid acoustic jumbo - and the guitar is very good, and the woods on top and body is also of a very high quality (to me it is better than new Gibson J-200 it is based on, and probably 10 times cheaper).
But I know that the quality on Vintages is not even, some are really good, some may have issues.
For solid electric guitars I think this is less risk than with acoustics.

[joaopaz]

Another cheap Tele I found.. Vintage Icon V52MRBS (V52 Series). About EUR250.
They use Chinese woods but good Wilkinson hardware.

I cannot try it but I own Vintage all-solid acoustic jumbo - and the guitar is very good, and the woods on top and body is also of a very high quality (to me it is better than new Gibson J-200 it is based on, and probably 10 times cheaper).
But I know that the quality on Vintages is not even, some are really good, some may have issues.
For solid electric guitars I think this is less risk than with acoustics.

Those always looked interesting to me. Never tried one but the reviews are generally very nice - given their range.
When buying budget guitars is generally the hardware part that fails first, so I guess all Wilkinson material is already a good start.

[Jonah]

Some new experience here...

There's a guy in my office - he is an amateur rock player, sometimes we discuss guitars and all... I knew he had a Tele and I asked if he still had one... but he had sold it some time ago instead he offered me a Strat - he does not sell it - just to play for a couple of weeks just to try solid guitar on singles..

His Strat is very beatiful - three colours sun-burst.... rosewood fretboard. He said it's Japanese (Fugijen 1990) he bought from Japan... pu's are customs but they are approx the same as original.. he changed becaus ethere was some wiring problem and it was easier to change the pickups (I am not really sure what it was)...

The strings are extremly thin (I think it's 0.8)... those rockers!... The first string just slides away..

It makes very difficult to compare it with my Ibanez semi-hollow with 0.12 string sets (1st changed to 0.13)

But overall I had surprisingly very positive impression... the guitar is very comfortable to hold and play (Partly because of strings that I can hardly feel, I even began to think of switching to 0.11 or 0.10)

The neck looks like D shape, and a fretboart is bit wider than on my guitars, but I usually get quickly used to any neck profiles...

I liked the tone... not that I would say it's better than humbuckers on my guitars, just different but I like it... sounds fresh.

Another thing with humbuckers for me... on one hand they have some kind of sweet fatness volume in tone (good ones of course)... but I always hear as if somthing gets cut off at the same time.. I am not a technician so I cannot tell what...
And with singles I -am not sure but it seems I can hear this missing part)))

I always loved brighter tone, everybody says they turn down the tone control, I usually turn it up, or mix neck pick up with bridge one if I have it.. or try to do something with an amp controls... I always feel like I do not have enough highs..
(By the way Wes sounds to me as if he has his tone control up. Maybe I am wrong, but that's how I hear)

I liked various combinations of pickups - spp far 2nd, and 3rd switch position I liked the best.

What I am thinking about now.Many poeple say that Teles and Strats are absolutely different guitars... but is it really so? Or this difference is something in their own Fender-world?
And maybe from prospective of semi-holows or hollow bodies - they seem to be almost the same?
I did not have much experience, the only thing that I maybe noticed that this Strat sound maybe a bit more flat or a bit simpler than the Teles I tried.

[Lobomov]

What I am thinking about now.Many poeple say that Teles and Strats are absolutely different guitars... but is it really so? Or this difference is something in their own Fender-world?

The 3 pups configuration and the fact that the strings are mounting on a piece of metal attached to strings do make some difference, but in my mind they are basically the same. I think of them as the fender with and without tremolo and the reason I have a tele is simply because I'm not keen on tremolos

[Jonah]

Any idea on that guitar?

https://www.thomann.de/gb/chapman_gu...nal_nat_sa.htm

Head looks upside down, and natural body looks a bit like crude table top (though it could be considered a style maybe... IKEA?)
also '8' on the 12th fret makes feel uneasy... I don't know why)))

However it looks.. any idea on how it sounds and feels?

Thanks

[joaopaz]

Any idea on that guitar?

https://www.thomann.de/gb/chapman_gu...nal_nat_sa.htm

Head looks upside down, and natural body looks a bit like crude table top (though it could be considered a style maybe... IKEA?)
also '8' on the 12th fret makes feel uneasy... I don't know why)))

However it looks.. any idea on how it sounds and feels?

Thanks

Chapman Guitars is the baby of Rob Chapman, a YT superstar that works with one of the major stores in the UK, Andertons. Check their videos, they have great stuff. Rob seems to be a genuinely nice guy, awsome player, and since he's investing a lot (of reputation?) in this project I think he must be close to what's coming out of the production line... never tried one, but I believe those most be great instruments for their value.
Rob plays on a metal band, maybe that's the influence for the reverse headstock? Actually I find those headstocks really cool.

The "8" sign I think it's an "infinite" sign and not an 8 ;-)


As for the Strats you mentioned:
To me Strats and Teles are 2 different animals, but I agree, the Strat may very well be the most comfortable guitar on the planet - and I've seen some pretty nice jazzy sounds coming out of them. Maybe the reason you don't see them more often at jazz is because of a symbolic thing.. Strats being so heavilly connected with Rock and Blues.
Teles also, but since you have major players that used them - that sure helped them acquire some jazz mojo!

If you're going the Strat way take care with the tremolos: personally, I believe that most of the Squier line tremolos is unusable... I had a great Classic Vibe, perfect in every way, but the tremolo was pure junk.
I'd look for something dual-fulcrum type - and again I'll bring the G&L line... love mine as you can see

[Jonah]

Chapman Guitars is the baby of Rob Chapman, a YT superstar that works with one of the major stores in the UK, Andertons. Check their videos, they have great stuff. Rob seems to be a genuinely nice guy, awsome player, and since he's investing a lot (of reputation?) in this project I think he must be close to what's coming out of the production line... never tried one, but I believe those most be great instruments for their value.
Rob plays on a metal band, maybe that's the influence for the reverse headstock? Actually I find those headstocks really cool.

Thank you, I read about it a bit already... still the design is a bot awkward to my taste (I am not talking the sound and quality of guitars of course, never tried one)

The "8" sign I think it's an "infinite" sign and not an 8 ;-)

I thought about it too.. actualkly when I typed '8' I did not mean eight...
maybe this feel of infinity is what made me feel a bit uneasy?)))

[Jonah]

As for the Strats you mentioned:
To me Strats and Teles are 2 different animals, but I agree, the Strat may very well be the most comfortable guitar on the planet - and I've seen some pretty nice jazzy sounds coming out of them. Maybe the reason you don't see them more often at jazz is because of a symbolic thing.. Strats being so heavilly connected with Rock and Blues.
Teles also, but since you have major players that used them - that sure helped them acquire some jazz mojo!

If you're going the Strat way take care with the tremolos: personally, I believe that most of the Squier line tremolos is unusable... I had a great Classic Vibe, perfect in every way, but the tremolo was pure junk.
I'd look for something dual-fulcrum type - and again I'll bring the G&L line... love mine as you can see

Thank you so much...

usually when I get fixed on a new guitar - there's nothing that can stop (even lack of money unfortunately)... I will try to keep cold))) and play a bit more Teles and Strat before I decide...

What is good that these guitars are relatively cheaper than archtops and easier to sell if you dont like one...
it may take a year to sell an archtop here.

[Jonah]

To me Strats and Teles are 2 different animals

What makes it so different for you? I am sincerely curious... sad I do not have both guitars now available to compare with the same amp