Disturbing Trends in Guitar Sales

[teleman3726]

It depends on the pieces for sale. 60s Byrds go for their asking price. Same with L5's of various eras.
Solidbody guitars, used, less.
Just my view.
But it is a slower market than a few years ago.
Some of the Gibson Custom Shop guitars are stupidly priced but I guess someone buys them.
I also love the dealer who won't send a few extra pics of the guitar being sought or refusing to send a little video clip to whet the buyer's appetite.

[jim777]

You know what's odd? I've noticed recently on eBay that there is occasionally one guitar for sale (the one I'm thinking of was an Ibanez GB-30) from Japan, but there were 4 or 5 different auctions up for it. Maybe 80% of the pictures in all the auctions are the same, with maybe one or two different poses in each. Often, the serial number is shown in a few of the auctions, so you know its the same guitar. Prices for the one I saw recently went from about 1700 to 2500. Literally the same guitar! Has anyone else noticed that? I understand this may be an old thing but it caught me by surprise.

AFAIK duplicate listings on the same item are not allowed as more than one buyer can "win" the same item. I am surprised Ebay has not pulled them all.

And they're back, same guitar, same seller, two different prices (though only $16 dollars difference right now). Check the pics of the wiring inside the soundholes, headstock shots, it's clearly the same guitar in both ads.

Used! Ibanez GB30 George Benson Model Black Vintage Guitar 1986 w/Hardcase | eBay

Ibanez GB30 George Benson Model Vintage Electric Guitar Made in Japan 1980's F/S | eBay

[Papawooly]

I worry that guitar will fall the way of the clarinet; I worry that rock is, like jazz before it, entering its senescence, to be loved and learnt by only a few disciples, and ignored -- or worse, scorned -- by others. But I reckon if I can inspire someone to pick up a six-string and give it a shot, I've done a little bit to fight that.

You need to watch more Telemundo!!!

[Greentone]

Guitar may or may not be there for ensuing generations of music listeners. Tell you one thing, though--it sure was there for me. GO, guitars!

[Robertkoa]

It might be all three, but I think that it is indicative of the stat that something like 1 in 10 people that buy a guitar actually sticks with it to learn how to play. So there are at least 10 times more guitars that are produced than are necessary. Couple that with those of us that do play and own multiple guitars. The result is that there are way too many guitars available compared to those of us that can only play one guitar at a time.

Most of you guys can only play one Guitar at a time ?

[lammie200]

Most of you guys can only play one Guitar at a time ?

Not if you really want to play the ivories Slightly out of tune I might add.

[Mike Anderson]

Sorry if I'm confused, but I think Katy Perry & Taylor Swift & Adele know a thing or three about writing hits.
Not in a guitarcentric way, but still . . .

Have any of those three actually written a song? If so, colour me gobsmacked.

I'll gladly say that again

I think you missed my point. What I saw when I quickly browsed thru their youtube channel (and in the vid Soloway linked to) was a lot of players doing amazing musical things, but most of them just bang on acoustic guitars and there is nothing new sonically to capture the imagination of the masses. More plausible is that it may be dismissed by the famous 'Too many notes' comment

+1. I think it would be refreshing if more musicians admitted to themselves that the only people listening to that stuff are other musicians. You talk about unicorns...

[ptchristopher3]

Have any of those three actually written a song? If so, colour me gobsmacked.

I think even the most casual attention to popular music, the music press/news, or I suppose even a google search, will reveal the remarkable number of successful songs written by them.

[Woody Sound]

Well since this is the "gear" area, what guitar is that? It sure looks like a solid (no-hole) version of the Ovation double, with trapeze tails added.

[Mike Anderson]

I think even the most casual attention to popular music, the music press/news, or I suppose even a google search, will reveal the remarkable number of successful songs written by them.

By golly, you're absolutely right ("or co-written" as Wikipedia reminds us) - just couldn't be bothered to expend even that minimal effort at the time, given that Katy Perry and Taylor Swift both fall squarely into the "Execrable Dog Crap from Hell" category of music. That said, Adele did record one of the all-time great Bond themes and has a lovely voice.

[ptchristopher3]

By golly, you're absolutely right ("or co-written" as Wikipedia reminds us) - just couldn't be bothered to expend even that minimal effort at the time, given that Katy Perry and Taylor Swift both fall squarely into the "Execrable Dog Crap from Hell" category of music. That said, Adele did record one of the all-time great Bond themes and has a lovely voice.

I don’t know man. They do not consider me their target audience. But they are seem to speak to many people.

I like what I like, love what I love, and totally respect those who musically speak to others, if not to me.

These young women write music that speaks to many.

[Rhythmisking]

Taylor Swift is actually a pretty decent songwriter. Her albums are so over produced that the songs get lost. I think much of what some people find objectionable is the sound/production style, which I don't care for either. Ryan Adams (not Bryan) has redone an entire album of her music and the songs are actually quite good once you scrape all the auto-tune drum machine bubblegum off of them.

[Mike Anderson]

I don’t know man. They do not consider me their target audience. But they are seem to speak to many people.

I like what I like, love what I love, and totally respect those who musically speak to others, if not to me.

These young women write music that speaks to many.

I don't think many people have any idea what speaks to them. Come to that, I don't think many people understand their own motivations or their relationship to the world around them and the sensory and informational inputs they're getting from it. I think most people are very easily led, and it would take nothing short of an apocalyptic revelation to dissuade me from this view. The music industry is a good example of this: most people don't have the time or motivation to really explore what's out there, so poop rules. The phenomenon of plastic cloned music and the glitzy cloned celebs who make it is nothing more than lifestyle marketing and the grotesque lust for fame and money - and for the fans, the reflected glory of that fame and wealth from their pet celebs.

In a sense I agree with you - dull robotic noise with vacuous lyrics about relationships that never happened, formulaic pablum perfectly crafted to be spoon-fed to the herd, is about as deep as a lot of people can go. Am I supposed to feel good about this? Do yourself a favour and go watch the second episode of Black Mirror. It's on Netflix, easy to find, and might provide you with a salutary jolt of new ideas.

That said - meh, it is what it is.

[ptchristopher3]

Noooooo, please do not imply we agree here. Nor am I trying to dissuade you from a view.

We are simply giving opinions on the subject after sorting out the simple facts of some performers being also songwriters.

I understand you have some more developed opinions on entertainment in general. I was not stating any opinion on that.

[Stringswinger]

I don't think many people have any idea what speaks to them. Come to that, I don't think many people understand their own motivations or their relationship to the world around them and the sensory and informational inputs they're getting from it. I think most people are very easily led, and it would take nothing short of an apocalyptic revelation to dissuade me from this view. The music industry is a good example of this: most people don't have the time or motivation to really explore what's out there, so poop rules. The phenomenon of plastic cloned music and the glitzy cloned celebs who make it is nothing more than lifestyle marketing and the grotesque lust for fame and money - and for the fans, the reflected glory of that fame and wealth from their pet celebs.

In a sense I agree with you - dull robotic noise with vacuous lyrics about relationships that never happened, formulaic pablum perfectly crafted to be spoon-fed to the herd, is about as deep as a lot of people can go. Am I supposed to feel good about this? Do yourself a favour and go watch the second episode of Black Mirror. It's on Netflix, easy to find, and might provide you with a salutary jolt of new ideas.

That said - meh, it is what it is.

That is quite a "snobbish" attitude. How do you feel about Democracy?

[christianm77]

I'm very much in favour of a bit of well-informed, high-brow snobbishness. Highly underrated.

Boulez on Messiaen:“Yes, there are some pieces of his I will do. But Turangalîla ... Never! For me this piece is … you know … a kind of Bernini of the suburbs!”

I don't even know what that means. +20 points

But I also like being able to find musical gems in pop culture. Don't be snobbish about Taylor Swift, too obvious a target.

[Stringswinger]

I'm very much in favour of a bit of well-informed, high-brow snobbishness. Highly underrated.

Boulez on Messiaen:“Yes, there are some pieces of his I will do. But Turangalîla ... Never! For me this piece is … you know … a kind of Bernini of the suburbs!”

I don't even know what that means. +20 points

But I also like being able to find musical gems in pop culture. Don't be snobbish about Taylor Swift, too obvious a target.

I am not a fan of Ms. Swift, but do admire her success. I am a fan of Bob Dylan, Johnny Cash, Diana Krall and Wes Montgomery's later recordings on Verve and A &M. I know that some peoples taste might differ, but I would be offended to be told that my taste is because I am a mindless follower.

I am sure my bandmate who loves Taylor Swift might feel some offense reading this thread.

[Longways to Go]

Regarding Katie Perry, Taylor Swift, and Adele . . . I must admit that I have always assumed that these stars have written much of their content. I also assume the same of Lady Gaga, Mozart, and the Beatles.

In 2008, I was teaching high school art out in western Kansas when I saw this poster of a girl with a milk mustache holding a guitar in the hallway. That was my introduction to Taylor Swift. Whenever I let my students draw the subject of their choice, most all of the girls drew her. So I figured out who that was. And let me just say, she was rocking the world of every junior high girl out in the sticks!

Katie Perry was not on my playlist, but my wife enjoyed her songs. So we watched her movie "Part of Me" Totally sold me on her.
Understand, I'm more of a classical music listener -- Prokofiev late symphonies, William Byrd, Brahms --etc. But I think that Katie Perry has heart.

Adele made me cry with her Grammy show performance of "Rolling in the Deep". Still does.
I don't care much for the James Bond tune.

I'm glad that at least Taylor Swift picks up a guitar now and then.

Also, I love Lordes "Royales" tune. I hope she wrote that one too.

[Mike Anderson]

That is quite a "snobbish" attitude. How do you feel about Democracy?

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others. Who’s that guy in the White House again? Not much of a news watcher I’m afraid...

As for the snobbery, damn right. Well earned in over half a century of relentless, consuming musical obsession. I used to feel a bit guilty when pointing out that something sounds like it was written by a computer designed to churn out formulized hits. Not any more.

@Stringswinger: the nice thing about being you and loving the music you do is that only a complete moron would suggest you’re being a mindless follower. So you’re safe in that regard. And if your bandmate likes songs designed to give starry-eyed 12-year old girls lousy ideas about how the only thing that’s valuable about them is their ability to get and keep a guy, that’s fine too. Life will be what it will, and while a sucky dumbass plasticated arts culture may seem a terrible thing to me, it just is. I do my best most of the time to be philosophical about it.

[ptchristopher3]

I do not know the basic realities of your life. But pretty much everyone here is a result of absurd privilege and good fortune.

So we do not worry about grocery money (or ebony money), and possibly wallow in self-absorbed opinions while failing to gather the essential facts first.

But maybe we also seek to be impactful in the lives of our families and communities, while mostly indulging our plush-bottomed selves and pretending not to.

How any of this reasonably leads to shitting on the work of young women escapes my admittedly limited brain.

[Mike Anderson]

I do not know the basic realities of your life. But pretty much everyone here is a result of absurd privilege and good fortune.

So we do not worry about grocery money (or ebony money), and possibly wallow in self-absorbed opinions while failing to gather the essential facts first.

But maybe we also seek to be impactful in the lives of our families and communities, while mostly indulging our plush-bottomed selves and pretending not to.

How any of this reasonably leads to shitting on the work of young women escapes my admittedly limited brain.

I know you don't know me, so I'm happy to fill in a few blanks. I've been poor as a churchmouse my entire life. My dad was an abusive alcoholic philanderer. School was a washout until I returned to college in adulthood; depression has been an issue and at times, grocery money has been a very real problem. Fortunately in my 40s I met a woman who had a better idea of how to deal with money than I did, and after lots of struggle we've found ourselves in a decent little house in a nice neighbourhood after fleeing the junkie-infested one we've been in the last 13 years.

The idea of being able to buy a $25,000 guitar - or even a $5000 guitar, never mind several of them - is a fantasy to me and will certainly remain so given my age. Do I feel like I've been left out of aspects of life I was supposed to be "entitled" to? Hell no. On the subject of "good fortune", this thought from Neal Boortz, libertarian writer:

"The dictionary says that fortunate means 'having derived good from an unexpected place.' There is nothing unexpected about deriving good from hard work."

I don't begrudge anyone having rooms full of guitars they worked for, nor do I begrudge Taylor Swift her $280 million (see, I'm pretty good at using Google really) - but I do reserve the right to talk about music any damn way I please. Young women or old men, the argumentum ad misericordiam doesn't work on me. It struck me last night after my last post: threads like this are commonplace here, and mostly are kinda amusing because some folks seem to consider these unanswerable inane questions about the future of the guitar to be of earth-shaking importance - but questions about the future (and present) of music seem to verge on taboo.

Go watch S1E2 of Black Mirror and think about it. The occasional shock to the system is good for you.

[Stringswinger]

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others. Who’s that guy in the White House again? Not much of a news watcher I’m afraid...

As for the snobbery, damn right. Well earned in over half a century of relentless, consuming musical obsession. I used to feel a bit guilty when pointing out that something sounds like it was written by a computer designed to churn out formulized hits. Not any more.

@Stringswinger: the nice thing about being you and loving the music you do is that only a complete moron would suggest you’re being a mindless follower. So you’re safe in that regard. And if your bandmate likes songs designed to give starry-eyed 12-year old girls lousy ideas about how the only thing that’s valuable about them is their ability to get and keep a guy, that’s fine too. Life will be what it will, and while a sucky dumbass plasticated arts culture may seem a terrible thing to me, it just is. I do my best most of the time to be philosophical about it.

Mike,

You and I probably agree on more than we disagree. I am a libertarian Republican who is glad that here in America, we are not a Democracy (we are in fact, a Republic) and I find these notions of "privilege" coming from the left to be both offensive and absurd. I too, see a breakdown in our culture when I hear the lowest common denominator in our mass marketed pop music.

But from where I stand, when you listen to Rap and/or Techno and then listen to Taylor Swift, she sounds pretty damn good (and she looks even better. And if that last comment gets supporters of the @MeToo movement riled up, too bad for them. )

[christianm77]

I am not a fan of Ms. Swift, but do admire her success. I am a fan of Bob Dylan, Johnny Cash, Diana Krall and Wes Montgomery's later recordings on Verve and A &M. I know that some peoples taste might differ, but I would be offended to be told that my taste is because I am a mindless follower.

I am sure my bandmate who loves Taylor Swift might feel some offense reading this thread.

Yeah I’m not a big Swift fan, I find her music a bit forgettable tbh, but that’s not to say there isn’t some commercial pop I really enjoy.

I also think people who go ‘oh it’s easy to make a pop record, anyone could do that’ - NO IT ISN’T.

If you need convincing go watch Rick Beato’s vid on Max Martin’s production techniques - and tell me straight you could do that.

In practice I feel commercial music, including film music is heavily geared towards sound design, which means the more conventional aspects of music that we might enjoy in jazz: melody, harmony, instrumental virtuosity, spontaneity etc are kind of downplayed, and that’s why in the end I’m not the kind of musician who is happy sit in front of a workstation.

But I respect that to get good at anything requires a lot of work.

I hear you on Dylan and Cash btw

[christianm77]

I too, see a breakdown in our culture when I hear the lowest common denominator in our mass marketed pop music.

Modern music has always signified the breakdown of civilisation since the time of the Ancient Greeks.

But actually, the thing I find a bit weird is how non-modern a lot of pop music sounds. Take Bruno Mars for instance.

If anything what bothers me about modern music is how referential to the past it has become. Film too.

Perhaps the strangest thing is that a lot of the ‘80s revival is down to people who are too young to remember it first hand. In contrast the heavy ‘50s revival in the ‘80s in pop culture was down to people of that generation - Stephen King etc.

[Mike Anderson]

This is all good thoughtful stuff and I’d love to dive in but am watching my son compete in a FIRST Robotics event. Yep, I’m living proof that f*kups can break the generational cycle and raise absolutely amazing kids.