Gibson Johnny Smith - Pre Fret Job

**Max405** · 02-21-2017, 03:46 PM

Ole Fret,
I read through the all of what you wrote. As always, thanks for your wisdom.
Pardon my ignorance. What is hemispherical ends?
I could never understand what the Dodge "HEMI" engine is either.

Vin,
As usual, that's great advice. I might try that. Who would turn their nose up at a little extra sustain? I really think the frets will improve that too. Thanks bro.

JD

**Matt Cushman** · 02-21-2017, 05:20 PM

I don't know if these count as hemispherical but I like to round the fret ends before I polish them. Here is a shot of my latest build. Sorry I couldn't resist showing her.

**Ol' Fret** · 02-21-2017, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Max405

Ole Fret,
I read through the all of what you wrote. As always, thanks for your wisdom.
Pardon my ignorance. What is hemispherical ends?
I could never understand what the Dodge "HEMI" engine is either.

JD

Joe, sorry for any confusion! That term relates to the shape, the specific dressing of the fret ends - in contrast to the common beveled fret end dressing.
Take a ball or sphere and cut it into two halves, and you get a hemispherical shape. Then you cut this shape once again into two halves: voilà, a semi-hemispherical shape! Each fret, one by one, is hand filed, sanded and polished before installation to ensure the smoothest possible feel to the fingerboard. This allows to install the frets a few tenth of a millimeter inside the edge of the fingerboard (as opposed to them being flush with standard frets) - if there is any movement of the wood, as can sometimes be the case, the frets will not protrude over the edge of the fingerboard avoiding the discomfort that standard beveled fret ends can cause.
It's an old, long-known procedure.

The hemi-spherical or domed fret ends are usually done before the installation of the frets, otherwise it will drive you or your guitar tech crazy. Some folks are crazy enough:

Gibson Johnny Smith - Pre Fret Job-dscf1308c-jpg

Gibson Johnny Smith - Pre Fret Job-dscf1308c-jpg

The Dodge "Hemi" engine? Well, a long time ago I was interested in car engines... perhaps it's related to the hemispherical combustion chamber.

**Ol' Fret** · 02-21-2017, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Matt Cushman

I don't know if these count as hemispherical but I like to round the fret ends before I polish them. Here is a shot of my latest build. Sorry I couldn't resist showing her.

Your guitar looks great, Matt - and rounded fret ends don't hurt!

I've been thinking a bit about the Gibson nibs - and they may have one functional point: the nibs could contribute to help loose fret ends (where the tang had been removed due to the neck binding) keep down on the fretboard surface level. These ends tend to spring back, sometimes causing buzz and metallic chirp, especially with old frets (indomitable stuff) and vintage guitars.
All in all, however, it could be the best for the fret ends to take care when gluing them down to the fretboard and binding (press the ends down until the glue has dried) - best again to do this fret by fret, although I know some luthiers flood all the frets with CA all in one go, then clamp a long radius block over the frets. It sure helps to pretreat the frets, the slots and seating, and use some CA activator.

**Max405** · 02-21-2017, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Matt Cushman

I don't know if these count as hemispherical but I like to round the fret ends before I polish them. Here is a shot of my latest build. Sorry I couldn't resist showing her.

You made that?!?
oh my god. That is beautiful Matt.
Wow!

**Max405** · 02-21-2017, 09:20 PM

Ol'fret,
i always enjoy your posts. You are a classy person. A credit to the forum.
Thanks taking the time to explain that.
Being a Gibson devotee' it will take some time for me to get use to the nibless neck. I guess just as long as I keep the guitars properly hydrated, the frets won't poke and I won't have anything to whine about.
Thanks, Joe D

Originally Posted by Ol' Fret

Joe, sorry for any confusion! That term relates to the shape, the specific dressing of the fret ends - in contrast to the common beveled fret end dressing.
Take a ball or sphere and cut it into two halves, and you get a hemispherical shape. Then you cut this shape once again into two halves: voilà, a semi-hemispherical shape! Each fret, one by one, is hand filed, sanded and polished before installation to ensure the smoothest possible feel to the fingerboard. This allows to install the frets a few tenth of a millimeter inside the edge of the fingerboard (as opposed to them being flush with standard frets) - if there is any movement of the wood, as can sometimes be the case, the frets will not protrude over the edge of the fingerboard avoiding the discomfort that standard beveled fret ends can cause.
It's an old, long-known procedure.

The hemi-spherical or domed fret ends are usually done before the installation of the frets...

**Matt Cushman** · 02-22-2017, 10:10 AM

Ol' Fret

Your guitar looks great, Matt - and rounded fret ends don't hurt!

Thanks Ol'Fret . My inlay pattern was inspired by mother nature, flower power you might say.

Max405

You made that?!?
oh my god. That is beautiful Matt.
Wow!

Thanks J D, I appreciate your saying so. I enjoyed building it. My nephew owns it now, he let me have carte blanche with the build.

**vinnyv1k** · 02-22-2017, 10:53 AM

I bought a Cushman guitar around ten years ago and must say it had the best fret job I ever played.
When my luthier Frank Ford saw it the first thing he said was "nice frets".
I really like the way Matt carves his tops. Really nice recurve.

**neatomic** · 03-06-2017, 10:20 PM

hey joe D... you driving around that luthiers shop yet?? anticipation! haha

cheers

**Max405** · 03-06-2017, 11:13 PM

Ha!
I dialed 6 of the 7 digits today and hung up.
Yeah im getting anxious. Just a little.
Thanks Neatomic. JD

**citizenk74** · 03-07-2017, 12:03 AM

Hang in there, Joe. You can do this!

**citizenk74** · 03-07-2017, 12:16 AM

I got antsy and tried to get an eta from a great luthier once.

Once.

I think it added another two months to the schedule.

It was still worth the wait.

Endeavor to persevere!

**Max405** · 03-07-2017, 09:10 AM

C74, Exactly!
I hope this luthier does a good job. I'm sure he will. HForum Front Pagee comes recommended.
Either way, you guys will know about it.
Thanks, Joe D.

Originally Posted by citizenk74

I got antsy and tried to get an eta from a great luthier once.

Once.

I think it added another two months to the schedule.

It was still worth the wait.

Endeavor to persevere!

**Dennis D** · 03-07-2017, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Max405

C74, Exactly!
I hope this luthier does a good job. I'm sure he will. HForum Front Pagee comes recommended.
Either way, you guys will know about it.
Thanks, Joe D.

That reminds me of how my remodeling contractor ' educated ' me about his scheduling.
" Why isn't anyone there today , you ask ?? "
" Well, number one, that f***in' Mastic we put down yesterday has gotta dry. "
" Number Two, that f***in' tiling & Thinset we did yesterday also has to dry. "
" Number Three, that f***in' drywall-to-plaster patch we did is still drying. "

" So, do you see a pattern here, Dennis ? "

All I could sheepishly say was " Uh, yes ".

(... it reminded me of that 'grits' testimony scene from My Cousin Vinnie -- " Are you telling this Court you would have us believe the laws of physics exist everywhere in the world but not when it comes to the preparation of grits on your particular stove ?? " )

Hang in there Joe !!

**Max405** · 03-07-2017, 10:08 PM

Dennis, you should cut him off said,
"Four"... and then wrapped your 5 iron around his head..
JD

**Dennis D** · 03-08-2017, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Max405

Dennis, you should cut him off said,
"Four"... and then wrapped your 5 iron around his head..
JD

Amen !!

**whiskey02** · 03-09-2017, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Max405

Hey Dennis,
These frets are just as they were when they were new. They are very wide and very shallow.
Easy to fly around on but not as easy to play other stuff on like a guitar that has medium Jumbo's - ala, L5 frets..
JD

Have you seen the Wes videos from his European tour labeled Live in '65 (on YT now)? The frets on his L5 look enormously wide and not particularly tall. Is fretwire like this still available?

**Max405** · 03-09-2017, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by whiskey02

Have you seen the Wes videos from his European tour labeled Live in '65 (on YT now)? The frets on his L5 look enormously wide and not particularly tall. Is fretwire like this still available?

Thanks. No, I never saw the video. I have to check it out.
In my research I remember seeing a .039 high x .102 wide, but I couldn't figure out what kind of wire it was. So maybe the wire is available.
JD

**vinnyv1k** · 03-09-2017, 01:00 PM

Actually I have those Wes DVD's including the one that is no longer available. Close examination on a big screen TV they look like jumbo's with a medium or high height to me.

**Max405** · 03-09-2017, 01:14 PM

Vinny, I watched some of that video. I cant make out the fret sizes because its too fuzzy. But one thing I did notice, everything you've been saying about Wes is true. His playing is, Just, perfect. Not too flashy. Just meaningful. He stayed within himself which kept him within the tune. He was never off. You can really hear Wes's influence in George in that video.
He played like Wes learned how to play it, which was, smooth, simple and perfect. That video opened my eyes.
Thanks Bro.

**Stringswinger** · 03-09-2017, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Max405

Vinny, I watched some of that video. I cant make out the fret sizes because its too fuzzy. But one thing I did notice, everything you've been saying about Wes is true. His playing is, Just, perfect. Not too flashy. Just meaningful. He stayed within himself which kept him within the tune. He was never off. You can really hear Wes's influence in George in that video.
He played like Wes learned how to play it, which was, smooth, simple and perfect. That video opened my eyes.
Thanks Bro.

Wes was the perfect jazz guitarist. He set the bar very high and nobody has topped him yet (and probably never will).

**Dennis D** · 03-09-2017, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Actually I have those Wes DVD's including the one that is no longer available. Close examination on a big screen TV they look like jumbo's with a medium or high height to me.

This discussion made me wonder whether anyone here had ever seen WM's ' Heart' L-5 ? I wonder which frets Gibson restored it to after that fire, and maybe which frets are on the heart R/I's ?

How many of the heart L-5's were there ? I keep thinking that if only one heart L-5 existed and seeing it was a 'trademark' of his, he wouldn't want to be without it for too long due to repairs. Therefore maybe his frets were close to a Gibson standard.

Just my two cents. Hopefully someone here has seen one, and I'd bet someone has.

**vinnyv1k** · 03-09-2017, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Max405

Vinny, I watched some of that video. I cant make out the fret sizes because its too fuzzy. But one thing I did notice, everything you've been saying about Wes is true. His playing is, Just, perfect. Not too flashy. Just meaningful. He stayed within himself which kept him within the tune. He was never off. You can really hear Wes's influence in George in that video.
He played like Wes learned how to play it, which was, smooth, simple and perfect. That video opened my eyes.
Thanks Bro.

Wes was what I call a pocket player. He wasn't a flashy player but his timing was impeccable. His playing was always spot on in the groove. He never had Benson's speed but his playing was still edge of your seat tasty.
I put Wes and Grant kinda in the same boat. At first listen they sounded like simple players until you really start to listen to them then they blow your mind. They both had unbelievable timing. The old saying sometimes less is more. Riverside Wes and Blue Note Grant....tough acts to follow.

**wintermoon** · 03-09-2017, 02:35 PM

"I put Wes and Grant kinda in the same boat"

I like Green as much as the next guy for his swing, soul, etc, but he's not in the same stratosphere as Wes, imo.
Montgomery was a highly advanced player, Green a much more basic player w/about 1/2 dozen favorite licks that he used all the time.

**vinnyv1k** · 03-09-2017, 03:04 PM

The key word I said was "kinda". Grant was basically a great blues player with a very nice jazz/bebop flavor. He was not a good comping or chord player. Wes was the total jazz package for sure. His playing was pure sophisticated jazz.
I still say they were both fantastic pocket players.
After 1966 neither artist put out anything that was outstanding IMO. Wes died in 68 and Grant's heroin addiction affected his playing abilities.