Ibanez AF200 Prestige

**ETS** · 07-16-2016, 03:48 PM

I know the current AF200 models are near the top of the line...

Are the versions from the early 90s high quality? There is one at a shop about 3 hours from my house. I can determine on my own if it is quality once I get there... but not sure if it is worth the drive to begin with. To be clear, it is 1991 made in Japan.

**agentsmith** · 07-17-2016, 06:54 AM

yes, very high quality. Bright guitars though. Sound decent with tone control rolled off. Heritage eagle would be a better bet IMO unless you are getting the AF200 closer to $1k

**jbucklin** · 07-17-2016, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by agentsmith

yes, very high quality. Bright guitars though...

I've found this to be the case with laminated spruce tops in general. I had a Corona-built Guild x-500, and after that a Benedetto Bravo, both of which have laminated spruce. It was especially difficult to let go of the Bravo, since everything about it was absolutely perfect---with the exception of that brightness.

I have an Ibanez Artstar SS300 which has a solid pressed spruce top. Warm, rich tone! What I don't understand is why the AF200 is the only spruce-topped archtop in the Prestige line around the 2k price point. Why can't they offer one with at least a pressed spruce top?

**Para** · 07-18-2016, 07:38 PM

My AF200 has a solid pressed spruce top.

**jbucklin** · 07-18-2016, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Para

My AF200 has a solid pressed spruce top.

What year?

**ETS** · 07-18-2016, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by agentsmith

yes, very high quality. Bright guitars though. Sound decent with tone control rolled off. Heritage eagle would be a better bet IMO unless you are getting the AF200 closer to $1k

Kinda random guitar in your reply.. it's AF200 or nothing right now because it's fairly nearby and I can get a good deal on it.

Anyone else have any thoughts on early nineties AF200? Probably going to see it Wednesday morning as long as nobody says it is trash for 1k lol

**helios** · 07-19-2016, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by ETS

Kinda random guitar in your reply.. it's AF200 or nothing right now because it's fairly nearby and I can get a good deal on it.

Anyone else have any thoughts on early nineties AF200? Probably going to see it Wednesday morning as long as nobody says it is trash for 1k lol

I have a newer AF200. The MSRP is around $2300. It plays and sounds great. If I were a gigging musician, it's the one I would use (and I own some other nice guitars). I would check out a 90's one for around $1000. Jeff

**ETS** · 07-19-2016, 02:38 PM

OK.. 2 have attested to their quality so I will check it out. I'll report back to let you all know if I pull the trigger.

**jbucklin** · 07-21-2016, 12:59 AM

I'm very curious to hear what your impressions are. Is it a laminated spruce top?

**ETS** · 07-21-2016, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by jbucklin

I'm very curious to hear what your impressions are. Is it a laminated spruce top?

I think so but can't say for certain.

ok, question for you guys: the bridge is the classic style with the little thumbwheels for adjustment. I can't seem to get the bridge to go any lower than its current setting. i'd like to lower the action some but its not coming easy. is there something I'm missing here? I guess it could already be set its lowest possible position but you wouldn't know it by feeling the strings.

**Thumpalumpacus** · 07-22-2016, 12:06 AM

Have you checked the relief on the neck?

**helios** · 07-22-2016, 03:57 AM

I am using a Gotoh TOM on my Af200's stock bridge baseplate, and I notice the TOM does not stand as tall as the stock wooden compensated bridge. I replaced the compensated bridge with the TOM because I'm fussy about intonation. The TOM will bring the strings closer to the fretboard (provided your 90's bridge is like the newer ones). My neck is set very flat. I just checked, and the thickest automotive feeler gauge I can slip between my precision straight edge and frets 5 & 6 is .0025". The action is low with no buzzing (my other guitars require more relief).
No two guitars are the same, I recognize--I'm just providing my info.
Also, if you wish, I will send you my wooden compensated bridge, and you can try it or modify it (sanding/filing the part that rests on the thumb-wheel). That way you won't wreck your own wooden bridge if something goes wrong. PM me, and I'll mail it if you want. Jeff

**ETS** · 07-22-2016, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

Have you checked the relief on the neck?

yes that was one of the things I had the guitar man at shop look at for me before i took it home. i also requested a demonstration of the truss rod. everything was fine; i don't recall any exact measurements, but the neck was set really straight with a very small amount of relief (forgive me, I'm starting to wade into territories i'm not too familiar with.. I'm a beginner in some ways =))

Originally Posted by helios

I am using a Gotoh TOM on my Af200's stock bridge baseplate, and I notice the TOM does not stand as tall as the stock wooden compensated bridge. I replaced the compensated bridge with the TOM because I'm fussy about intonation. The TOM will bring the strings closer to the fretboard (provided your 90's bridge is like the newer ones). My neck is set very flat. I just checked, and the thickest automotive feeler gauge I can slip between my precision straight edge and frets 5 & 6 is .0025". The action is low with no buzzing (my other guitars require more relief).
No two guitars are the same, I recognize--I'm just providing my info.
Also, if you wish, I will send you my wooden compensated bridge, and you can try it or modify it (sanding/filing the part that rests on the thumb-wheel). That way you won't wreck your own wooden bridge if something goes wrong. PM me, and I'll mail it if you want. Jeff

i would really prefer not to go to a TOM, for lots of reasons.. but i like your thought process there! i will do it if it ends up being my best option. maybe I will try to find out if the bridges share the same specs? if so i will take you on your offer. thats very kind, thank you!

do folks sand these types of bridges all the time? i.e., is it common practice to achieve a lower action? its not impossibly high, so its playable as is, its just higher than I'm used to and I really would like to get it down without having to do any major surgeries on the guitar...

(also i will get those pics up soon.. i love it so much =))

**agentsmith** · 07-22-2016, 08:38 AM

ibanez guitars have terrific necks. It's very rare for one of their 3pc necks to experience warping, tail rises, twisting, etc.

**ETS** · 07-22-2016, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by agentsmith

ibanez guitars have terrific necks. It's very rare for one of their 3pc necks to experience warping, tail rises, twisting, etc.

As stated I am no expert, but it doesn't look bad to me.. and 2 different guys at the shop were bragging on this guitar like crazy. I know that doesn't mean much but if the neck was rubbish I think one of us would have noticed.

I would be able to tell, right ?

**jbucklin** · 07-24-2016, 08:18 PM

I had an Ibanez SJ300 that actually came with an extra TOM bridge in the case. I ended up replacing the ebony bridge with it and immediately noticed that the action was lower. Difference in tone was negligible. L5s come with TOMs, btw.

**ETS** · 07-24-2016, 10:30 PM

How would one go about getting a TOM or any other bridge for that matter for an archtop? That is.. how do I make sure the measurements are the same? Radius, spacing, height, etc? Furthermore what brands/makes are good quality?

**helios** · 07-25-2016, 05:38 AM

Hi,
Gotoh (Japan) products are great quality at reasonable prices. You'll need: 2-1/16 string spacing, 2-29/32 post spacing,
& 12" radius (that's what the newer AF200's require). Jeff

**ETS** · 07-25-2016, 12:37 PM

thanks!

i've done some tweaking today...

when I depress a string at the first fret and the final fret, the feeler gauge at the 8th fret is about a 0.010" (little less, to be honest), so that is pretty straight neck I think

i sanded down the part of the bridge that touches the base. Now the bridge rests on the thumbwheels even at the lowest setting. that allowed the bridge to sit lower. The action around the first few frets is quite low, too low really, but the action around the 12th fret didn't change much at all (if any). it is still high. The bridge isn't sitting too much lower than before, but it was sanded enough to make a difference in feel.

any suggestions? what is going on here....

**lesyeuxnoirs** · 11-12-2016, 09:48 AM

Hello everybody

Given the expertise on the forum, I was hoping to get a bit of advice

The issue is this:

I recently purchased one of the new Ibanez Prestige (Made in Japan) - the AF200. This guitar is absolutely beautiful and an absolute joy to play...

...the only thing is, I cannot get it to sound how I want it to. Leaving aside any comment about technique versus gear (which I generally agree with), my problem relates to a more objective element of 'tone'.

In short, I am after the classic ES-175 tone and I can't seem to coax it - or anything close - out of this guitar. I am running it through a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe (and I can get good tones out of this using a semi or even a Tele) and I have played around with settings on the guitar and the amp.

The Ibanez either sounds a bit too thin and 'acoustic' (not bad in itself, just not what I want) or else muddy and prone to feedback (which, I recognise, is to be expected when raising the volume). The other issue is that the guitar lacks any sustain and is somewhat 'clipped'. Could this be a consequence of using the flats that came on the guitar?

I want it sound warm and thick and, well, like an ES 175 but I can't seem to get it there

Does anybody have any advice? Might a change of strings do it? Changing the pick ups? It has - I think - Super 58s which are meant to be pretty good. Or should I just accept that this guitar isn't going to give me the sound I am after?

thanks in advance for your help

**Frank67** · 11-12-2016, 10:38 AM

I am afraid that most attempts to mod a guitar to sound Like some other guitar aren't too succesful (I've been falling into the 'almost like a xxx' too many times ... always ended up buying the real thing later and took a hit on the 'almost like' that are hard to sell too).
There surely are possible improvements for a given guitar with pickups or bridges or nuts or frets or whatnot, but I doubt any of that will make your Ibanez sound like an ES 175. Far and away the best solition (IMHO) is to sell the Ibanez and get an ES 175 because nothing else will be really like it and you already know that this is what you are after. With a bit of patience, a good deal will surely reveal itself.

**john_a** · 11-12-2016, 11:36 AM

You've indicated "using the flats that came on the guitar" which might be a contributor to the sound issue, if you want flats then be prepared with a known good set on hand. But first, work with adjustments that set the neck, string action, and pickup height (in that order.) Get the set up adjustements close *before* making any other changes. Pickup height and string action height both change tone, with higher action really helping if you ever are hitting strings hard and you want to hear the complete dynamics when you go from light to harder touch. Too low string height kills the sound for me, it can literally limit string excursion which is in effect mechanically clipped. Action and pickup height can get you clean headroom out of the guitar.

I have an Ibanez PM with a single Super 58 at neck position, and it seems a decent sounding pickup. Even without any changes on my Super Reberb amp, I can plug in my semi hollow, solid bodies, or any of the archtops and be fairly close. Of course some amp setting adjustments do optimize the tone, but the general sound is there for all (probably because I'm focused on a round/full clean sound even from the solid guitars.)

That said, I am going to experiment with changing out my Super 58 before too long, I've had the Ibanez less than a year and wanted to give some time before experiments begin. I have a SD 59 neck that will go in at some point, as that's a pickup I know well and will provide a base line for future decisions. I can see trying my Fralin P92 as well, but not before hearing how a "normal" humbucker brings out the sound.

Set up the guitar to help dynamics, then get new strings and re-check the setup and pickup adjustment, try it long enough to get fully acclimated and able to hear the nuanced difference your adjustments make (check the bridge is solid contact against the top) and finally consider a pickup change. New pickup can absolutely be an upgrade to your tone, but first find the setup combination to optimize the sound before you swap PUs.

I like particular pots / caps and usually upgrade those things to, but that's not often a major change sound wise.

Good luck, seems like that Prestige Ibanez should be capable and definitely worth some effort.

John

**john_a** · 11-12-2016, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by FrankLearns

I am afraid that most attempts to mod a guitar to sound Like some other guitar aren't too succesful .

Yes, that probably is the best advice, buy something that sounds the way you want..
I guess the stuff in my post about getting the setup correct is still valid, just stop short of spending money and do what you can to optimize it even if it only is done to make it easier to sell.

But there's so much variation in guitars, even a 175 may not sound like "your" ideal 175, so be prepared to sample a few and learn to recognize if any deficiences you find are deal killers (inherent to the guitar) or just the fault of setup.

John

**lesyeuxnoirs** · 11-12-2016, 01:11 PM

Thank you all

What a great community this is

I should have said that the guitar doesn't sound at all bad, just not how I want it to sound. When I put it through a solid state amp, it really nails that more modern and/or acoustic sound that seems popular these days

But this is all great advice.

I am going to do all the checks and tweaks suggested by John (and taking on board the point about stopping short of spending more money on it)

But, ultimately, I think Frank is right. I have fallen into the 'almost as good for a lot less money' trap

It is a shame because, otherwise, the guitar is beautiful and really high quality. Definitely worth the effort

thanks again for your replies

**Lobomov** · 11-12-2016, 02:17 PM

I don't know how much is the pups and how much is the guitar. I know a guy that loves his Ibanez AF105 with the super 58s, while I find them on the thin side more or less exactly like you describe it. Maybe it is the guitar .. I dunno, but to my ears my own Ibanez PM100 that a previous owner put a SD Benedetto A6 into smokes it with regards to getting classic sounds.

He strings his AF105 with chromes (12s), while I use the same only a size thinner (11s), so our strings are comparable.

As said, I dunno how much is the guitar it self, but if you go the changing of pup(s) route, I'd suggest a SD Benedetto A6 in the neck position