Best Jazz Guitar Pickups

[Stringswinger]

Jack, I have read that Gibson started potting pickups in the late 70's. Perhaps they did not use potted pickups in archtops until the 90's? Perhaps your Les Paul was made before they started using potted pickups in those?

We would have to ask someone who was with Gibson in those days or someone who has done a lot of pickup repair on Gibsons of those decades to know for sure....

[jzucker]

yeah, the lp was a '72 but my '89 175 has microphonic pickups. Maybe it was potted at one time and someone took the covers off or something?

[Greentone]

Okay. Here's the deal. Gibson used different humbuckers on different guitars in the 70s. On Les Pauls--not all of them (Artisans, 25th Anniversary, for example)--they used T-tops. On ES-335s, SGs, ES-175s, and some other guitars, Gibson started putting a pickup co-designed by Bill Lawrence, sometimes called "tarbacks" into the guitars between around 1973-1980. I have a pair in my 1975 ES-335. The tarbacks are potted pickups. The potting material, however, is some kind of black epoxy. Good grief! To take the cover off of a pickup is essentially a destructive act. I know of no way to remove the cover this side of cutting it off with tin snips. The soldering iron, so effective with regular humbuckers, is of no avail with tarbacks. I cannot imagine a tarback _ever_ becoming microphonic.

Tarbacks are _somewhat_ hotter than PAFs, but they are nowhere near as hot as, say, Gibson Dirty Fingers pickups, or as most DiMarzios. Tarbacks have been making a broad comeback in the last decade, and they bring a pretty penny in the secondary market.

In actuality, I have my tarbacks safely in the neck pocket of my case. I have a nice set of Seymour Duncans in the guitar, at this point. Soon, however, I will be putting the tarbacks back in. The tone of the neck pickup, in particular, is very, very good for the kind of music I play.

[wanderingchords]

I have a gretsch streamliner g2420 i bought because i love how it looks and plays with the intent on trying to get a jazzier sound. Im having a lot of trouble finding the right pickups for it. The current ones are just so hot like you would expect from a gretsch. Id love to hear any suggestions on what would help me get a smoother more mellow sound. Thanx!

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[Cunamara]

Before spending the substantial money on pickup changes, the first steps (which you might have already explored) are:

(1) Fiddle with the volume and tone knobs. I have on guitar with really hot pickups, and I usually play that one with the volume knob on 5 or so. This also have a salutary effect on the tone, knocking off some of the hard edge of the attack. On most electric guitars, rolling down the volume also rolls down some of the top end frequencies. Once I get my tone in the ballpark with the volume know, I fine tune it with the tone knob. Mitch Holder discusses this in one of his videos, using the volume knob first to find the sound you want and then using the volume knob. It works IME.

(2) Try different picks. It is surprising what effect the pick has on tone. Preferring a fairly traditional jazz tone, I find that I like the D'Andrea ProPlec picks (the small teardrop ones, in my case) and much to my surprise I really like the Dunlop Ultex Jazz IIIs. I use those more than the D'Andreas now.

(3) Try different strings. Flatwounds, pure nickel roundwounds both provide a warmer, mellower sound to my ears than do nickel plated or chrome/stainless strings.

(4) Try different picking approaches. A hard, fast pick attack will result in a bright tone with lots of overtones; a soft pick attack will result in a warmer rounder sound with fewer overtones. I use a soft attack so that the notes I pick hard and quick really jump out.

[Stringswinger]

The pickups I like best for jazz are:

Gibson 57 Classics

Duncan 59s

Pre T Top Gibson humbuckers (crazy expensive)

For floating PUPs

Handmade Kent Armstrongs

Vintage Dearmonds (very expensive).

[joaopaz]

Do check the Bare Knuckles "Manhattan" - it's a P90 in humbucker size and sounds amazing. It's very different from the Gretsch (I have a Streamliner, too).
The pickup is exactly as described on their website. It's sounds great on its own, but it's even better when playing in a band... and it's the only pickup that managed to make reeeealy like my Fender Hotrod Deluxe amp.

Check the Jimmy Raney study group thread... i posted a comparison there: comments placed it marginally above the Classic 57 I have on my Epi175.

[blille]

(3) Try different strings. Flatwounds, pure nickel roundwounds both provide a warmer, mellower sound to my ears than do nickel plated or chrome/stainless strings.

The rest of tips are good but this is probably the biggest change imho. Put flatwounds and tell us what you think afterwards.

It would also be helpful to hear what amp you have and what tone you're after (player/ song).

FWIW my favorite is likely the SD A2 Pro.


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[joaopaz]

After reading the other replies above:
Incidentally, my Gretsch Streamliner (g2622) is out for mods; I'm going to replace the whole electronics but I'm keeping the pickups :-)
They are generic himbuckers all right, but they sound good, so...

[neatomic]

played a bunch of gretsch 2420's..dynamite guitar for the money..has great acoustic tone for a cheap (under 500$) made in asia laminate arch...and potential great pup mod platform

but before you go further...try lowering the pickups into the body a bit...(gretsch pickups are not known for being hot!!..they are generally underwound, low resistance)

also take off the factory nickel plated steel roundwounds and try some pure nickel roundwounds.. or if you really want "the jazz"- thomastik pure nickel jazz swing flats

and yes as mentioned ^ don't be afraid to roll back the guitar knobs..find the guitars sweetspot

cheers

[citizenk74]

To all the excellent advice above I would add re: picks - picks have more than one "business end". Try rotating the pick to make use of the attack variation afforded by the curves of the pick. for instance, the Ultex Jazz IIIs Cunamara refers to have, by my count, four different ways contacting the string: the pointy end (maximum bite), the opposite end (mellowest, gentlest attack), and the two corners - one leading with a curved edge (mellow) and the other leading with a straight edge (a bit more whump).
Metheny gets a lot of range by using a thin pick which he squeezes between thumb and two fingers to vary the stiffness, or so I have read.
I'm from the "try everything that doesn't require additional outlay first" school of thought. To that end I've spent a lot of time re-shaping picks of many different sizes, shapes, and materials, with some good results.
All that said, I've gotten tones I (and other people, apparently) consider nice using '57 classics, Duncan '59s, stock pups from PRS, Fender, and Ibanez, generally setting my pickups further from the strings than most people, and twiddling knobs (guitar and amp) like crazy.
Don't be afraid to experiment. Good luck!

[wanderingchords]

Hey thanx all for the responses. let me add that yes I have flat wounds. Yes I've tried other picks, and noticed subtle differences but still stick by my trusty Jazz III's, I have backed up the pickups into the body, I'll try dropping them some more and see. I have to keep the knobs dialed back to even come close to the sound I want but still not quite there. I'll use any opportunity to talk about my amp by answering you that I play through a 1963 Fender Deluxe Reverb. And as far as the sound I'm looking for, as close as I can get to jim hall without buying the Sadowski he is playing in this video... so basically... this video starting at 5:44... thanx for all your help!!!

[Herbie]

A lot of good information here!

The 'bestness' of the pickup depends a bit from the guitar, if You finally have to go that route. Treblier guitar does not enjoy from trebly pickup.

I have had guitars that came alive with Seymour Duncan SH-55 Seth Lover pickups. Some of the Gibson Burstbucker 1 or even 2 (the unpotted one) are great. Many enjoy the Gibson 490 series too. And if You get a hold on a pair of the Gibson MHS humbuckers they should be even closer the G's original greatness.

Lollar makes a lot of good pickups, the Imperials are very good humbuckers.

Not to mention all the varieties of Charlie Christian type of pickup that You can find nowadays.

About the "best jazz pickups" generally: why does not any manufacturer make DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1100's in humbucker size? That would be a hit!

[GNAPPI]

Whatever you do do NOT buy a pickup because it has the word "JAZZ" in it :-). I have an SD SH2 which even by the SD sites own admission it's BRIGHT. No way a Jazzer's pup.

In gits I've had, I really like the old Schaller Gold 50, and Gibson 57 Classics, and I recently bought a Bartolini PBF49 and I am going to try them all in a git that I've been unhappy with... it has an SH2 the PO installed, soon to be residing in my spare pup box. Since Gibson puts 57's as stock offerings in their most respected Jazzer's boxes I think it would be hard to be dissatisfied with them.

An aside, I have Burstbucker 1 and 2 in two gits I have and at least in my hands it's not a very warm sound, quite the opposite with lots of gain, and accentuation on mids and highs. Funny some who have them have an opinion 180 degrees out from mine while others agree with me.

[neatomic]

well one things for sure..if you want to sound like jim hall, you just need the neck pickup..you just cut your expenses in half!! hah

great pickups recommended ^, but i don't think i'd install 300-400$$$$ of pickups in an under 450$ guitar...and if you do, save the old ones, should you ever sell...you'd never recoup half of what you put in on a guitar of that pricepoint

instead, try dropping the neck pup low into the body, then use guitar and amp controls to dial in "closest" sound to "your jim hall dream tone"...then start to raise pickup back up in small increments to fine tune....

basically, by lowering the pup, you lose some volume, clarity/string definition, and mids/highs, but pick up warmth (a looser low end) and a more even but spacious acoustic tone ...halls tone is somewhere in between....a warm acoustic low volume tone, but not muddy, still has mids and clarity...he used stainless steel flats...11's

cheers

[Cunamara]

Well, Jim was probably using a Polytone amp there, so that's one thing. Your Fender is a great amp but not necessarily for the sound you're talking about. It has a pronounced mid-range cut which is precisely what you don't want for this kind of tone. The old trick for these is that "flat" is treble and bass at 0.5 and then upping the volume to compensate. That might help but might still not be enough. The DR can sound great for jazz, but it's more in the Peter Bernstein-Grant Green spectrum than Jim Hall.

If you listen back to Jim's work over the years, you can hear a lot of tonal change. His sound in the 50s with his ES-175 with the P90 and a Gibson GA-50 is different than a few years later after Jimmy D'Aquisto replaced the fingerboard and installed a Guild humbucker, first still using the GA-50 and then Polytones. Then he switched to a D'Aquisto electric guitar (laminated body) with the Guild pickup, which was modeled after the ES-175. That was replaced by the Sadowsky, which was in turn modeled after the D'Aquisto. The pickup in that is wound by Dimarzio to be close to the Guild pickups that D'Aquisto and Jim favored. So, in a roundabout way I am suggesting looking for an old Guild humbucker with the embossed cover as seen on Jim's ES-175 and D'Aquisto. Or contacting Dimarzio to see if they can make you one like they do for Sadowsky.

[Herbie]

(...) An aside, I have Burstbucker 1 and 2 in two gits I have and at least in my hands it's not a very warm sound, quite the opposite with lots of gain, and accentuation on mids and highs. Funny some who have them have an opinion 180 degrees out from mine while others agree with me.

You are right!

One reason is the Burstbuckers. There is many variations of them, potted and wax potted to start. And I think that there is also Custom Shop variation of them too. My Les Paul '58 Reissue has Bb 1&2 which are airiest and liveliest Bb's I have heard. Many of them are – like You said – gainy and middy, almost like 490 pickups. So it seems that in Burstbuckers Gibson have found something of the PAF era: the unconsistency!

Another reason is the differences of the guitars. Different woods like different pu's.

And of course there is the ear factor, different players like different pickups!

[Herbie]

well one things for sure..if you want to sound like jim hall, you just need the neck pickup..you just cut your expenses in half!! hah

So You might think. And if You buy new this can happen. But usually the pickups are sold and bought as sets and sometimes it makes this one pickup policy harder. In the used market the sets are easier to sell. And I have been searching ONE used Lindy Fralin Pure PAF Neck pu at least for an year, but everybody sells them ONLY as sets. Even local LF dealers here keep this discipline.

[ROCK1]

You can buy individual Seth Lover pickups.

I've had success turning the guitar volume all the way up and then turning down the amp volume. The theory is that you're allowing your neck pickup to show you all of its potential sound at full volume.

[whiskey02]

You can buy individual Seth Lover pickups.

I've had success turning the guitar volume all the way up and then turning down the amp volume. The theory is that you're allowing your neck pickup to show you all of its potential sound at full volume.

Not to throw ROCK1'S at you but I do the exact opposite- I turn the amp up, maybe 12 to 1:00 o'clock position and with my guitar volume on 0, slowly roll it up, usually happy with the volume knob between 2 and 4.
Try everything wanderingchords and you'll find your sound.

[docbop]

You can buy individual Seth Lover pickups.

I've had success turning the guitar volume all the way up and then turning down the amp volume. The theory is that you're allowing your neck pickup to show you all of its potential sound at full volume.

That's my experience too. With the pickup wide open you get all the sound of the string and it overtones, turning down is like putting too much pad on a mic and muffling the sound, losing definition.

[billyguitar]

FWIW, I know you can buy Fralins one at a time also...they don't normally make a pickup until it's ordered, and then it's made exactly to your specs. Obviously, that is only for new pups though.

I just actually put a 9K humbucker in an old SG of mine. It sounds so great, now I will have to get an 8K for the neck too

[coolvinny]

I just put a Lollar El-Rayo in my laminate jazzbox to replace the Lollar Imperial (normal wind) HB that's been there for about 4 years. Very happy with the result. Matches very nicely with my flat wounds, thick lick and dark-ish 12" speaker SS amp to give me a brighter (less dark) sound. Beautiful not-too-electric sound out of the high strings too. More clarity generally, and especially when playing chords. Slightly lower output but easy to fix by just turning amp volume slightly higher.

[rio]

You are right!

One reason is the Burstbuckers. There is many variations of them, potted and wax potted to start. And I think that there is also Custom Shop variation of them too. My Les Paul '58 Reissue has Bb 1&2 which are airiest and liveliest Bb's I have heard. Many of them are – like You said – gainy and middy, almost like 490 pickups. So it seems that in Burstbuckers Gibson have found something of the PAF era: the unconsistency!

Another reason is the differences of the guitars. Different woods like different pu's.

And of course there is the ear factor, different players like different pickups!

My old MiM standard Telecaster which is no longer with us due to a refinishing accident had a Burstbucker that I put in the neck and it was killer for jazz. I think in a more lively guitar it wouldn't have worked as well but on that one it sounded great. I seem to remember them saying something about a variance between pickups that was intentional, which is cool but could also be very frustrating. After the Tele I put it in a Guild Starfire 2 and it also sounded awesome in that guitar so maybe it was just that pickup happened to be suited to jazz guitar. Unfortunately I sold that guitar to pay the bills after getting separated so I no longer have the pickup. Good guitar too.


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[MoCee]

I just replaced my Made in China Super 58 Customs in my Ibanez LGB30 w/ Made in Japan Super 58s, and the difference was very obvious. The tones is cleaner, crisper, the bass is nice and smooth and the highs are not one bit sharp or screachy. I compare it to my Epiphone ES-175 Premium which has the USA Gibson 57 Classics and they are very different sounding guitar for different reasons, and both are great. The Gibson 57 are very warm and can get a bit crunchy, the MIJ Super 58s are so smooth. I use 11s, flats on both.

My question is, does anyone know of a pickup that is similar in tone and sound as the MIJ Super 58s? I'd like to install a set into my Ibanez AF155. Thanks in advance.