Gibson ES-Les Paul

[bluznjazz]

Hi all,

Does anyone have any experience with the semi-hollow Gibson Les Paul?

It looks like it could do a decent job in the jazz realm. One of the main questions I have, are these guitars neck heavy?

I had an ES-336 which is sort of the same animal and that hing was so neck heavy, holding the neck up and playing at the same time did not work.

From what I have read, they are a cross between a LP and a 335, and sound like a 335. Since they have different pickups, I would think the sound would be different.

I have also noticed a lot of used ES Pauls on the market. I wonder if players get disappointed with them after giving them a try for a while.

Any opinions are gratefully welcome.

Bill

[GNAPPI]

Well, I had one for a few days, I LOVED the sound of the MHS pups, but it had a problem with the upper frets so I brought it back.

There are a LOT for sale used, I am not sure this is a bad sign.

[Jonathan0996]

I think the ES Les Paul is what Dan Wilson plays. He does ok with it, but then he'd sound great on anything.

[Blues Fuse]

I think Dan's playing an ES-446 in the videos.

He has also played a Gibson Howard Roberts

[Lobomov]

I've been gassing for one of these for a long time. They sound great to my ears. The MHS neck has a sweeter sound (in other words more mids) than the 57 neck. Seeing that the newer ES-335s also often come with the MHS pups, I convinced myself that I would prefer a 335.

Recently my local dealer finally got a 335 with the MHS pups, so I could compare them side by side (A Memphis 63ri model). The ES-Les Paul was a more open sounding and had more thump. I'm guessing this is due to the centerblock being a lot smaller than in the 335 giving it a more hollow character. So now my ES-LP gas is on the rise again.

With regards to all the used ES-LPs. Either people don't like them or they've actually become popular and thus by sheer numbers sold generate a lot more on the used market. Given that Gibson has expanded the line with more finishes (like pelham blue), with and without F-holes, a P90s Bigsby version and also released both a studio and a special version, I'm guessing it might be the latter.

[Cunamara]

First time I saw one of these I thought "hey, Gibson made a GB10!"

[Marty Grass]

I have not played the ES-LP, but I have played others very much like it. These include several iterations of the Heritage Millennium, several Thorntons, and Heritage H150 lightweights.

There is a difference in sound. It's hard to describe in a meaningful way. People use terms like woody and warm, whatever that means. What I don't hear is a loss of sustain. Others may disagree, but I've tried to detect it and just can't. Two obvious differences are that one vibrates much more strongly against your body so that you can feel it and is much easier on your shoulder.

The ES-LP should do well for blues and classic rock. It probably will feedback more at high volumes, much like a 335.

In the old Gibson days, that design would have been too expensive to market. As it was, the LP was a higher priced electric than Fender. Adding an hour or more to fully routing the mahogany and the f holes would have pushed the price point up further.

[bluznjazz]

No one has responded that it was neck heavy, so I guess it's not?

[Eric Rowland]

No one has responded that it was neck heavy, so I guess it's not?

I had one for a while and it was nicely balanced and wonderfully light.

[Jonathan0996]

I think Dan's playing an ES-446 in the videos.

I guess you're right; I didn't know about the 446. I guess I need to spend more time in music stores. Other than the stop tailpiece in the ES Les Paul vs. the trapeze in the 446, what's the difference between the two guitars?

[Herbie]

I have been very interested in ES Les Pauls as a long time LP fan. Had finally a possibility to play one in a music store. A goldtop with P90's and a wraparound bridge(!).

It felt perfect, just like something that the LP had always wanted to be! Light, resonant and perfect neck. Not neck heavy at all.

Now I am planning to sell my R8 and buy a MHS pups equipped ES LP instead.

Where do You see the flocks of used for sale? I have followed these in Ebay and have seen about two preloved on the lists. Here in Finland none.

[feet]

I think they have a cheapo studio version out now, no? Curious, interested but also deeply concerned. I feel that a gretsch duo jet would be kind of similar, generally cheaper and a much safer bet, if I was buying blind.

Would love to hear more.

[GNAPPI]

Herbie, There are dozens on Ebay right now. Select US only, used. Check Reverb also

[Lobomov]

I think they have a cheapo studio version out now, no?

There is both a cheapo studio version and an even cheaper special version. Haven't tried any of them tho.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I've played a couple, no issue with neck-balance that I could feel.

[Hammertone]

I guess you're right; I didn't know about the 446. I guess I need to spend more time in music stores. Other than the stop tailpiece in the ES Les Paul vs. the trapeze in the 446, what's the difference between the two guitars?

Both instruments use a @24 3/4" scale, with necks that meet bodies at the 16th fret.
They feel, play and sound very differenet.
Some differences between an ES-Les Paul and an ES-446S:

1.
ES-Les Paul was introduced in 2014 and is in production. Thousands have been made in Gibson's Memphis facility.
ES-446S is discontinued and far fewer were made from @1997-2006 in Gibson's Nashville Custom Shop. Probably only a few hundred.

2.
ES-Les Paul is built like a semi with laminated, top and back plated glued to laminated rims. It has a slimmed-down block the runs the length of the guitar.
ES-446S is hollow, built with a carved solid spruce top with archtop braces (which are carved into the top, not glued on) attached to a solid mahohany, carved-out body, not as deep as a Les Paul, with a belly cut.

3.
ES-Les Paul has the body size/shape and decor of various Les Paul models. @ 13" wide.
ES-446S is 13 3/4" wide and used the newer body shape also used on the Gibson Pat Martino - a small guitar, but wider than the Les Paul. Most of the ES-446S models have unbound rosewood fingerboards.

Here's the Gibson ES-Les Paul bracing:

[LtKojak]

I've just played one in my city's biggest music shop and it was well-balanced, no neck-heaviness at all.

HTH,

[GNAPPI]

I'm not a pessimist by any stretch, but after having a spate of bad luck with Gibson in recent years, and shipping problems with other gits I've adopted a "expect the worst, accept the best" attitude. Between Gibson escapes and UPS gorilla package handlers my attitude was / is justified.

The packaging of this 2015 Les Paul ES was nothing short of amazing. The linear wadded paper I removed from the box is knee deep in my kitchen. The strings were detuned, a couple of layers of paper were under the FB, and the head had been wrapped in bubble wrap. The case candy is still in it.

At first blush after tuning it up the git is no way a "floor model" not by a long shot, it's pristine in every sense of the word. Even the "F" holes which have looked ragged as of late were smooth. Inside the body is sparkly clean not a hint of sanding dust, not a fingerprint or smudge to be found AND no cutting room floor debris in the case. Unlike my Les Paul Supreme I bought a few years back.

The action is pretty good, but not perfect yet, and so far frets and intonation are spot on, tuners hold tight and the MHS pups are not as bright as those on the LP ES I returned to my LGS last year.

If Gibson could deliver this level of out of box quality 100% of the time (which they should) their reputation would never have suffered as it has on just about every model except the super premium high dollar models.

So, unless the light of day can reveal something my white light CREE flashlight and UV lights haven't shown, I'm pretty happy.

Here's a crappy pic taken from my phone. Oh it weighed in at 6 lb. 8 oz. which is 4 ounces lighter than the one I bought last year.

[Herbie]

Congrats! Gorgeous one You got there!

So You gonna jazz with it with flats or rock with it with roundwounds?

[Stringswinger]

Congrats Gary,

A Les Paul for a jazzman....

[BigMikeinNJ]

Very nice Gary, I always wondered what one of those was like. I remember Guitar Showcase in San Jose having some of the Gibson Les Paul Florentines (look rather similar, but with off the charts flamed tops) and even though I am not a solid body guy thought one would be worth a whirl...

Yours is quite nice. Or as we'd say in cigar circles: Gee I never had me one of those, are they any good ???

Enjoy the hell out of it. About time you got a good Gibson huh ???

Big

[rhoadsscholar]

Very nice. Tried one in a store and was loving the neck profile and the weight (or lack there of). I was able to put one on lay away through CME and have a few pieces for sale on reverb to bail it out. Didn't want to miss out on the fun at these crazy prices. With 20 percent down they give you 60 days to pay (just in time for Christmas to me).

I got the same model in BLUE STAIN (the finish was stunning in person). GNAPPI, glad to hear the MHS pickups are a winner. Was wondering about those.

[vinnyv1k]

When Gibson gets it right no one can touch them. Happy you rolled a 7. Let us all hope this becomes a yearly thing with CME.
Now how about some L5CES floor models. Enjoy your new axe GNAPPI.

[GNAPPI]

I usually don't do NGD's, I prefer to give observations on what I own to other owners or prospective buyers, but CME and Gibson deserved mention this time.

So, it's been a full day playing it, and this one is less similar to my other Les Pauls, than say my Vegas (it's very much like the Vegas) or 335, without all of the weight and size of a 335 but with all of the vibe.

It's an odd bird construction wise for sure, especially for Gibson. The hog center block is not full length / width of the body, it seems to be "J" shaped (the long part of the J on the side of and pointing towards the cutout horn) and measures about 6"x4" at its widest point and is positioned mostly under the TP, bridge and bridge pup, the neck pup is mounted on the maple top over the hollow center cavity like a 175 or other fully hollow would be, and the the one piece neck (3 pieces with the wings on the head) is hog also.

I've been plugged into the old Polytone but in the days and weeks to come I'm going to see what other surprises it may have in store for me with tube amps.

Anyway, I see that the LP ES is not in the 2018 Gibson online lineup, typical for Gibson... discontinue it before it gets traction, then again at their "new location" down the road I can't see them continuing with a huge product line and color of the week LP, or floating many design balloons or re-issues like they did with the Midtown models.

[Max405]

congrats! It’s really nice man.
Tell us how it sounds! I’ve often wondered about those guitars.
Joe D