Full Binding Replacement

**Klatu** · 10-27-2016, 10:23 AM

I have a 1953 Epiphone Triumph Regent that will require a full 3-layer binding replacement including the body, neck, and headstock. I was hoping to get some opinions as to how much this might cost. I'd appreciate any experiences any of you have had with restoration work.

**Stringswinger** · 10-27-2016, 12:38 PM

I had an Epiphone Triumph Regent with binding issues. I was able to have the original binding retained by having it reglued with some new binding grafted in and aged where needed. The cost was $200.

While the binding itself is not too expensive, it is labor intensive work.

**Dennis D** · 10-27-2016, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

I had an Epiphone Triumph Regent with binding issues. I was able to have the original binding retained by having it reglued with some new binding grafted in and aged where needed. The cost was $200.

While the binding itself is not too expensive, it is labor intensive work.

Epiphones and their fairly common binding issues always scared me a lot more than $200 dollars worth. I thought they'd start talking at easily twice that !

That sounds pretty fair !

**wintermoon** · 10-27-2016, 01:02 PM

you're not gonna get a full rebind for $200 or even double that, though SS says he just had some repairs.
maybe if you find someone just starting out, but who's gonna trust someone like that?
most repairmen detest doing binding as it's a pain in the neck, you need to scrape the old off as well as the old glue and getting it all to lay evenly is no piece of cake. plus you need to stay away from the finish [if you do it right]
then tint it to look old.

you're probably looking @ $500-1000, maybe more if it says D'Angelico on the headstock.

**Jabberwocky** · 10-27-2016, 01:21 PM

Sorry to hear about that, Klatu. Maybe ask Ross Teigen? Florida Vintage Guitar Repair

**Stringswinger** · 10-27-2016, 01:39 PM

$500-$1000 Wow! I am sure glad I was able to get it repaired. If the Binding is not too far gone, I think repair is best if one is trying to keep a vintage guitar vintage.

It is my understanding that Guilds, Epi's and DA's from the 50's have binding issues as the East Coast supplier to all three companies sold a product that did not hold up well.

My Epi was from the 40's and the binding had shrunk, but had not disintegrated. I am glad it was able to be saved.

Good luck on the repair.

**wintermoon** · 10-27-2016, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

$500-$1000 Wow! I am sure glad I was able to get it repaired. If the Binding is not too far gone, I think repair is best if one is trying to keep a vintage guitar vintage.

It is my understanding that Guilds, Epi's and DA's from the 50's have binding issues as the East Coast supplier to all three companies sold a product that did not hold up well.

My Epi was from the 40's and the binding had shrunk, but had not disintegrated. I am glad it was able to be saved.

Good luck on the repair.

keep in mind that my guesstimate is east coast based on my experience w/excellent repairmen, you might very well find someone a bit away from from the city that will do a nice job for less.
but in the end ymmv no matter where you live.

**HeyNow** · 10-28-2016, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

$500-$1000 Wow! I am sure glad I was able to get it repaired. If the Binding is not too far gone, I think repair is best if one is trying to keep a vintage guitar vintage.

It is my understanding that Guilds, Epi's and DA's from the 50's have binding issues as the East Coast supplier to all three companies sold a product that did not hold up well.

My Epi was from the 40's and the binding had shrunk, but had not disintegrated. I am glad it was able to be saved.

Good luck on the repair.

Many D'Aquisto's also have failing binding. There were several at my luthier's shop when I went a few months ago.

And there was that oddball 60s laminate that caused some 'fun' threads here with that one fellow here...

**Stringswinger** · 10-28-2016, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by HeyNow

Many D'Aquisto's also have failing binding. There were several at my luthier's shop when I went a few months ago.

And there was that oddball 60s laminate that caused some 'fun' threads here with that one fellow here...

It is my understanding that the binding issues on D'Aquistos are related to the glue that was used, not the binding itself.

That D'Aquisto laminate has been for sale for quite some time. At a wildly inflated price. Some dealers are happy to sell used items (from cars to guitars) at full market value. There is nothing wrong with that. But other dealers hold out for a sucker that they can rip off.

**Stringswinger** · 10-28-2016, 03:33 PM

Duplicate deleted

**2bornot2bop** · 10-28-2016, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

It is my understanding that the binding issues on D'Aquistos are related to the glue that was used, not the binding itself.

That D'Aquisto laminate has been for sale for quite some time. At a wildly inflated price. Some dealers are happy to sell used items (from cars to guitars) at full market value. There is nothing wrong with that. But other dealers hold out for a sucker that they can rip off.

So, what is the "average" cost to replace the binding on a early 80's D'Aquisto?

I'm very curious, as I know a former luthier who replaced the binding on a D'Aquisto, who replaced the entire guitar binding, including surrounding the headstock and fretboard, AND basically redid much of the original finish surrounding the guitars top and back, which deteriorated along with the original binding. It was a HUGE job and the end result of the luthier's handiwork was nothing short of remarkable. The luthier in question was paid in the area of $2k for all of this work. Soon after that restored NY'er guitar was listed for sell at an amount of $50k. It sold.

**Matt Cushman** · 10-28-2016, 04:57 PM

It is getting difficult to find binding that will accurately replace binding on vintage guitars. The nitrate content in this type of binding places it in the hazardous material category for shipping in the US. I don't know where to even buy any black but I have seen aged white at $ 50.00 a strip for .250" X .090" X 96". I charge extra ++ to bind with this material due to toxicity concerns. It is best to wear gloves when scraping nitrate type bindings. You can make a bomb with this stuff due to its high nitrate content. The worst thing is that the new material will slowly degrade with times passage just as the original has done.

**HeyNow** · 10-28-2016, 05:34 PM

Did you get the info about the bad glue from our own 2B? He posted here:

Vintage Binding Replacement

I've never heard it was the glue. Always heard it was a bad batch as referenced in the thread above. Celluloid is really fragile sometimes, as we all probably know - having seen many Gibson pickguards disintegrated. It's possible Jimmy was using the same bad batch John used.

I had a conversation with my luthier about the D'Aquistos he was working on. He's repaired a lot of them and has done restorations on many D'Angelico's like the ones you see in Rudy's famous pic (my luthier made the white hand-etched pickguard of the D'Angelico Rudy is holding).

He will be as accurate as possible including the fractions of millimeters depth of each layer, some depths are no longer made so he has to try and track them down (like one of the layers on the heelcap of my Guild AA). He mentioned ABS nowadays has come a very long way since even just a few years ago as far as workability and ease of touch up.

**Klatu** · 10-28-2016, 10:07 PM

I just received the guitar in question. The binding was non existent as expected, but it came with a surprise neck crack. The crack doesn't go all the way through, meaning that the headstock is still attached to the neck. The seller has agreed to pay me $150 to repair the neck, or he would accept a return. What would be the final price you all would be willing to pay for a Triumph Regent (cutaway) fixer upper from 1953?

That being said, the crack is clean, so I think that it could be repaired neatly.

**Klatu** · 10-28-2016, 10:34 PM

Another way to ask that question may be: How much would a 1953 Triumph Regent be worth with a repaired neck crack and replaced binding?

**Jabberwocky** · 10-29-2016, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by Klatu

Another way to ask that question may be: How much would a 1953 Triumph Regent be worth with a repaired neck crack and replaced binding?

About 50% of one without a repaired neck crack and replaced binding, all things else remaining equal.

**Klatu** · 10-29-2016, 08:04 AM

OK. So if I got the thing for $500, I should go ahead and fix the neck and binding?

**Jabberwocky** · 10-31-2016, 03:13 AM

Originally Posted by Klatu

OK. So if I got the thing for $500, I should go ahead and fix the neck and binding?

Yes, as long as the total cost does not exceed 50% of the valuation of one without issues. It would be a pity not to try to rescue it.

Your call.

**skykomishone** · 10-31-2016, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Klatu

Another way to ask that question may be: How much would a 1953 Triumph Regent be worth with a repaired neck crack and replaced binding?

Klatu,

There are plenty of Triumphs around for sale. Here is a look at some recent sales:

https://reverb.com/price-guide/guide/3003

**Klatu** · 10-31-2016, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by skykomishone

Klatu,

There are plenty of Triumphs around for sale. Here is a look at some recent sales:

https://reverb.com/price-guide/guide/3003

Thanks for the link. However, the instrument in question is the Epiphone Triumph Regent. The Regent is the cutaway version of the Triumph and is the far rarer of the two.

**Klatu** · 10-31-2016, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

Yes, as long as the total cost does not exceed 50% of the valuation of one without issues. It would be a pity not to try to rescue it.

Your call.

Thanks for the advice. I have decided to go ahead with the restoration. As to whether or not the value of the restored item is at or under half the price of a pristine example, I think that the restoration will be worthwhile from a financial perspective, but it's not top of mind. Honestly, I love the instrument and want to see it in beautiful full working order.

**Jabberwocky** · 10-31-2016, 02:17 PM

Great, Klatu. I missed the part about it being a Triumph Regent. All the more the reason to restore it. Good karma to you.

The headstock will be better and stronger than when it was new. I am sure you know that. Nothing wrong with a repaired headstock when it is well done. The only impact is on its used value. It makes a perfectly fine playing and sounding guitar.