Thomastik Infeld Flatwound Strings Break While Restrining

[Dennis D]

Answer - -yes I did.

Last August I ordered 2 full sets of flats - -individual strings- - to get closer to Chromes' 12/52 gauges.

So far I broke 2 JS44's ( A's ) and one JS33 ( G )........I may very well make it 2 JS33's but I stopped trying for now.

I've got an e/m in to JustStrings, so we'll see I guess.

Anyone else had this problem ? I figure at over five bucks a string -seriously - I can buy a set and a half of Chromes.....And I haven't broken one of them since day one. And I had not even gotten these TI's to up pitch and hadn't trimmed the ends either.

Thanks......

[pingu]

What a drag man....
only time it happened to me once , 2 new Bottom E strings , culpret was a rogue machine head
One of those self clamping self trimming things
Gone right off them !

Are all the strings breaking in the same place ?
Could be a bad batch of strings I guess but
unlikely with TI

[blille]

Answer - -yes I did.

Last August I ordered 2 full sets of flats - -individual strings- - to get closer to Chromes' 12/52 gauges.

So far I broke 2 JS44's ( A's ) and one JS33 ( G )........I may very well make it 2 JS33's but I stopped trying for now.

I've got an e/m in to JustStrings, so we'll see I guess.

Anyone else had this problem ? I figure at over five bucks a string -seriously - I can buy a set and a half of Chromes.....And I haven't broken one of them since day one. And I had not even gotten these TI's to up pitch and hadn't trimmed the ends either.

Thanks......

Were they old stock, not sealed? It's the only explanation I can think of if it's a guitar you know well.

Never happened to me. I used TI 12s. (Now I use chrome 10s and put a 12 and 16 on top).

[Dennis D]

Were they old stock, not sealed? It's the only explanation I can think of if it's a guitar you know well.

Never happened to me. I used TI 12s. (Now I use chrome 10s and put a 12 and 16 on top).

I kept staring at the A post -- there it was with 3-4 windings - -all intact - -and the red outer wrap was split between the post and nut - -basically the same spot on 2 different strings.

Guess my idea of making up a set to get those gauges wasn't so hot.

[Longways to Go]

Ouch!

[agentsmith]

I remember breaking a few G strings years ago but haven't broken one in years.

[ThatRhythmMan]

I had two strings break just about 2 weeks ago while restringing. I contacted TI. They sent me a new set and an envelope to send them the broken strings for analysis. They were new sets, not old stock.

[blille]

I had two strings break just about 2 weeks ago while restringing. I contacted TI. They sent me a new set and an envelope to send them the broken strings for analysis. They were new sets, not old stock.

Did they also break under the silk?

[diminix]

So far I broke 2 JS44's ( A's ) and one JS33 ( G )...
Anyone else had this problem?

I had. Back in 2013 I had the idea to string my three guitars with a BB King inspired set:

0.010 - 0.013 - 0.018 - 0.028 - 0.044 - 0.050

First time it worked, from the second attempt on every A string 0.044 broke under the silk, at the point where the string starts to wound around the tuning post. Usually the string broke while tuning up for the first time, way before the A-note was reached. Twice it worked, and the string suddenly lost the tuning while playing a few days later, broke while trying to retune. That happened with two normal tuners, and a with Schaller M6 locking tuners. Several times checked the tuner posts for sharp edges--nothing, everything was smooth. Overall, I broke about a dozen of these strings.

I talked with Thomastik about it, sent the broken strings in and was generously re-equipped with 0.044 strings. Because the 0.044 string is built to be an E string with much lower tension than needed for A, my concern was that I tried something that wouldn't work by design. But Thomastik told me that the 0.044 should work as A without any problem. Right on, the first of the new strings broke while tuning for the first time. So I went to a luthier, to see a pro do it. He laughed at me, told me that he put on a million strings in four decades and of course he would be able to put them on--if the string material is ok. He broke four. After putting on the strings and doing the first few turns of the tuner, he said that the string feels weak and lifeless, and he could announce accurately the last turn of the tuner that broke the string. Finally, he mumbled: "It would be better if Thomastik stayed in their original business of violin strings".

So, got new 0.044's for free from Vienna, tried it once again, broke it, gave up. Funnily, the one string that didn't break on my Epiphone Sorrento is still working fine since 2013, played everyday. Because I changed the mini humbucker on that guitar to a normal size humbucker, I put the strings down from that guitar and restrung with the same strings several times--even then, nothing broke...

Robert

[JazzNote]

I've been playing TI Swings 0.13 to 0.53 on several guitars at the same time for decades. Never had a problem with a string to break.

[ThatRhythmMan]

Did they also break under the silk?

Mine actually broke just past the silk. I've never had a new string break during restringing before this. I continued with two strings from another set I had and had no problem.

[Dennis D]

Were they old stock, not sealed? It's the only explanation I can think of if it's a guitar you know well.

Never happened to me. I used TI 12s. (Now I use chrome 10s and put a 12 and 16 on top).

Sorry not to have responded sooner.

As far as I can tell, they were new....in TI's usual clear plastic envelopes - unsealed, then placed in their shiney printed paper outside envelopes....


I am glad I tried their strings, if nothing else just to check their performance...I also tried Pyramids, which are basically the same money......

To me - are they better than Pyramids ? Maybe - -again that's me........

But are they twice as good as Chromes, meaning for what they sell for ??

No way.....

MHO

[Dennis D]

I had. Back in 2013 I had the idea to string my three guitars with a BB King inspired set:

0.010 - 0.013 - 0.018 - 0.028 - 0.044 - 0.050

First time it worked, from the second attempt on every A string 0.044 broke under the silk, at the point where the string starts to wound around the tuning post. Usually the string broke while tuning up for the first time, way before the A-note was reached. Twice it worked, and the string suddenly lost the tuning while playing a few days later, broke while trying to retune. That happened with two normal tuners, and a with Schaller M6 locking tuners. Several times checked the tuner posts for sharp edges--nothing, everything was smooth. Overall, I broke about a dozen of these strings.

I talked with Thomastik about it, sent the broken strings in and was generously re-equipped with 0.044 strings. Because the 0.044 string is built to be an E string with much lower tension than needed for A, my concern was that I tried something that wouldn't work by design. But Thomastik told me that the 0.044 should work as A without any problem. Right on, the first of the new strings broke while tuning for the first time. So I went to a luthier, to see a pro do it. He laughed at me, told me that he put on a million strings in four decades and of course he would be able to put them on--if the string material is ok. He broke four. After putting on the strings and doing the first few turns of the tuner, he said that the string feels weak and lifeless, and he could announce accurately the last turn of the tuner that broke the string. Finally, he mumbled: "It would be better if Thomastik stayed in their original business of violin strings".

So, got new 0.044's for free from Vienna, tried it once again, broke it, gave up. Funnily, the one string that didn't break on my Epiphone Sorrento is still working fine since 2013, played everyday. Because I changed the mini humbucker on that guitar to a normal size humbucker, I put the strings down from that guitar and restrung with the same strings several times--even then, nothing broke...

Robert

Thanks Robert.

They were really straining as they got close to pitch. I made sure each time the windings were even, etc.

I'm pretty sure I don't need the grief of sending them back etc etc......

[Dennis D]

Mine actually broke just past the silk. I've never had a new string break during restringing before this. I continued with two strings from another set I had and had no problem.

....Mine broke past the silk too...........

[KirkP]

I broke one at the nut end once, but fortunately had just enough length left to restring it. It broke after I bent the string to lock it at the tuning peg, decided the bend was at the wrong spot, then tried to straighten it out. I've done that many times with other strings, but apparently the allow used by TI is unusually brittle. That might be part of the magic that makes them sound so good, but it means you need to be very careful to avoid sharp bends at the tuning peg.

[blille]

Sorry not to have responded sooner.

As far as I can tell, they were new....in TI's usual clear plastic envelopes - unsealed, then placed in their shiney printed paper outside envelopes....


I am glad I tried their strings, if nothing else just to check their performance...I also tried Pyramids, which are basically the same money......

To me - are they better than Pyramids ? Maybe - -again that's me........

But are they twice as good as Chromes, meaning for what they sell for ??

No way.....

MHO

When strings have broken for me it's always been when they were not sealed (and looked a bit old even new) so I'm starting to be a bit paranoid about it and I value D'Addario's plastic freshness thing. My guess was that they sit in warehouses for too long.

While I really like TIs (over Pyramids as well) and I would love to use them, I noticed that what I appreciated the most was the gauge combination so I just do that with chromes (and a couple of cheap single strings) for half the price. I'm a bit of a D'Addario fanboy (if there is such a thing) so take this with a grain of salt.

[Greentone]

I have never had a problem with TI strings. Using a .44 for an A-string, though, sounds like a high tension proposition.

Even the "heavy" George Benson set I sometimes use only has a .41 for the A-string.

My guess is that if you pull up the TI strings to a high enough tension to use them in your intended specification, they are going to fail...even if TI thinks they won't.

I have never seen much reason go go heavier than the Benson heavy set--.14 to .55. I have used LaBella tape wound strings that are heavier, but they are actually lighter gauge strings with a tape winding that makes them fatter. They are pretty low-tension strings, when you get down to it.

[Dennis D]

When strings have broken for me it's always been when they were not sealed (and looked a bit old even new) so I'm starting to be a bit paranoid about it and I value D'Addario's plastic freshness thing. My guess was that they sit in warehouses for too long.

While I really like TIs (over Pyramids as well) and I would love to use them, I noticed that what I appreciated the most was the gauge combination so I just do that with chromes (and a couple of cheap single strings) for half the price. I'm a bit of a D'Addario fanboy (if there is such a thing) so take this with a grain of salt.

I completely agree about their gauges. I don't know how they determine the gauges they use, but who knows ??

I have heard back from both Just Strings and TI's importer and will update everything later.

And yes I already hit the local music store and bought a set of 12/52 Chromes.....


Oh well - -this ( expensive ) TI experiment seemed like a good idea at the time.........

[Max405]

Dennis,
That sucks bro.
Last year, I had a TI jazzswing G string break during a string change (from a 12's set) as I was tightening it. First the winding broke and then the core snapped. It was near the tuning post, just clear of the red silk. I called the distributor and they got one out to me in a couple of days. They asked that I send the bad string back. So I did.
I'd be suicidal if TI12's suddenly developed Quality issues. I wouldn't know what to do. I'd quit playing guitar and take up knitting..
JD

[pingu]

<snip> I'd be suicidal if TI12's suddenly developed Quality issues. I wouldn't know what to do. I'd quit playing guitar and take up knitting..
JD

Me too ...

[Stringswinger]

Me too ...

Me three...

[Jabberwocky]

I wonder. Perhaps the recommended procedure for tying strings to the tuning machines does not work on T-Is.

Do T-Is require more red, green or teal silk to be looped around the tuning post before trimming off the excess?

I don't know how the T-I wound strings are terminated under the silk-wrapping. It just might be that the terminated end of it, just clear of the silk, does not like a sharp bend at the hole of the tuning peg. It wants to wrap around the outside (circumference) of it.

Just going out on a limb. Pass the silk-wrapped end under itself and bend it up at the silk-wrapped end. Wind on leaving more silk-wrapping on the tuning peg and wind the exposed string end on the outside?

Sorry if I am not making sense. Am not a technical writer.

[Max405]

Jabbs,
You are making perfect sense.
To vamp on what your are saying, Ever since my G string broke, I don't tie my strings anymore. With the silk on the TI's, I don't feel like I have to. I haven't had a guitar go out of tune in the last year. So I think it's is unnecessary.

JD

[Dennis D]

I have never had a problem with TI strings. Using a .44 for an A-string, though, sounds like a high tension proposition.

Even the "heavy" George Benson set I sometimes use only has a .41 for the A-string.

My guess is that if you pull up the TI strings to a high enough tension to use them in your intended specification, they are going to fail...even if TI thinks they won't.

I have never seen much reason go go heavier than the Benson heavy set--.14 to .55. I have used LaBella tape wound strings that are heavier, but they are actually lighter gauge strings with a tape winding that makes them fatter. They are pretty low-tension strings, when you get down to it.

I probably should 've stopped at their .039 for an A.....they don't offer the .041 in a single string.....I was just trying to keep the gauges a little more consistent, or, if I could help it, not have a ten gauge or higher difference between any 2 strings.....they're standard 5th-to-sixth string difference is .013 in the JS112 & .014 in the JS113......I just wonder how they ever arrived at that ?

...and besides the .044, the other one that broke was .023 as G.....and that broke in the center - -both silk ends stayed together....

..lesson learned.....

[blille]

I probably should 've stopped at their .039 for an A.....they don't offer the .041 in a single string.....I was just trying to keep the gauges a little more consistent, or, if I could help it, not have a ten gauge or higher difference between any 2 strings.....they're standard 5th-to-sixth string difference is .013 in the JS112 & .014 in the JS113......I just wonder how they ever arrived at that ?

...and besides the .044, the other one that broke was .023 as G.....and that broke in the center - -both silk ends stayed together....

..lesson learned.....

Rather than gauge I think of tension. You can see the tension per string of TIs here:

http://www.thomastik-infeld.com/site...er_06_13sc.pdf

D'Addario has similar info.


On the general point, can't wait to see you all knit