Endpin jack question

[JazzNote]

I'm considering to have an 1/4"" endpin jack installed on my Gibson Johnny Smith as the miniplug is most awkward to use. Before doing so i'd like to make sure that i know how this is done the proper way so i can talk about it to the luthier.


Questions:
1. are there any endpins available which are "better" than others in term of quality/easy of installation/durability?
2. I have seen fotos of guitars where one of the nuts was between the tailpiece and the body resulting in the tailpiace being somewhat bent when screwed back on the guitar. Is it possible to install the endpin with the nuts being inside the guitar and outside of the tailpiece? (i would prefer to avoid having to rout the the guitar additionally to accommdate a nut beetween tailiece and side)

Thanks in advance

[Jabberwocky]

One: I hate making a 1/2 " hole in an old archtop where there was none previously. I particularly HATE the Fishman and Schatten endpin jacks. Yes, you need to ream out a 1/2" hole to fit that damn thing in that guitar. Irreversible damage to your GJS, mind you.

Two: the position of the 1/8" mini-jack off the pickguard is in an awkward position. The 1/8" jack is not the problem; its position is. Tapastring Vintage 1/8" endpin jack to the rescue. This fits in the standard 1/8" strap pin hole in the tailpiece. You run the wire from the pots through the treble f--hole and then terminate it at the Vintage Jack. Buy a 1/8" to 1/4" pigtail, hang it off the guitar strap with a leather loop, plug your guitar cord phone plug into that. Acts as strain relief, too, for those moments that someone oafish steps on your guitar cord.

*Tapastring Guitar Care Products | The "Vintage Jack" | End Pin Jack No Drilling Required

The 1/2" Fishman Endpin Jackass has done more damage to nice guitars than I can shake a stick at. Like all good ideas, it sounds great until you inevitably put the guitar up for resale. I can understand it when guitars are designed with the Fishman endpin jackass in mind but on nice vintage guitars...

I hate that damn thing on nice guitars where there wasn't a jack previously. Kinda wish they were all Tapastrings Vintage Jacks.

Think about it very carefully before you proceed. As you mentioned, what happens if the hole isn't drilled correctly? Tailpiece alignment issues and stuff.

[sgosnell]

Don't you have to drill a hole for this in most guitars? Most archtops I've seen use a screw, not a press-fit endpin. True, it's a smaller hole, but still a hole. Maybe I'm missing something, though.

[JazzNote]

One: I hate making a 1/2 " hole in an old archtop where there was none previously. I particularly HATE the Fishman and Schatten endpin jacks. Yes, you need to ream out a 1/2" hole to fit that damn thing in that guitar. Irreversible damage to your GJS, mind you.

Two: the position of the 1/8" mini-jack off the pickguard is in an awkward position. The 1/8" jack is not the problem; its position is. Tapastring Vintage 1/8" endpin jack to the rescue. This fits in the standard 1/8" strap pin hole in the tailpiece. You run the wire from the pots through the treble f--hole and then terminate it at the Vintage Jack. Buy a 1/8" to 1/4" pigtail, hang it off the guitar strap with a leather loop, plug your guitar cord phone plug into that. Acts as strain relief, too, for those moments that someone oafish steps on your guitar cord.

*Tapastring Guitar Care Products | The "Vintage Jack" | End Pin Jack No Drilling Required

The 1/2" Fishman Endpin Jackass has done more damage to nice guitars than I can shake a stick at. Like all good ideas, it sounds great until you inevitably put the guitar up for resale. I can understand it when guitars are designed with the Fishman endpin jackass in mind but on nice vintage guitars...

I hate that damn thing on nice guitars where there wasn't a jack previously. Kinda wish they were all Tapastrings Vintage Jacks.

Think about it very carefully before you proceed. As you mentioned, what happens if the hole isn't drilled correctly? Tailpiece alignment issues and stuff.

Thanks Jabs!

Believe me i'd hate drilling a hole as much as you do. Not sure however if i'd trust a press fit endpin to be stable enough. I'm still in the evaluation process and might just add a 1/4" socket in direction to the tailpiece under the pickguard. This location would be more convenient as one can really see where to plug in. Securing the guitar cable between body & strap would probably provide sufficient security for those moments when someone steps on the cord.

[oldane]

How about just using a 1/4" to 1/2" adapter (like used in audeo gear) - and securing the guitar cable by looping it behind the Strap - rather than doing surgery on the guitar.

[Doctor Jeff]

I will second the opinion on the Tapastring jack. Installation is easy; if I can install it, anybody can. And it's VERY stable.

1) Virtually all endpin holes are reamed with a taper. Believe me when I tell you, if you tap this jack in with a small hammer, it ain't gonna come out without major effort on your part, and some specialized tools. Plus, if the natural friction isn't enough, they give you a small bag of resin to help out.

2) The plug itself has rubber gaskets and holds the right-angle 1/8" plug very sturdily, so there's little fear of it pulling out unexpectedly. It feels just as secure as a 1/4" jack IMO.

The only downside is the price--$75 is a bit much, but if you want an elegant solution and don't want a major modification of your vintage instrument, it's the way to go.

[Bluedawg]

I'm considering this same thing on my Campellone 18 inch acoustic.

I would like to install a cello acoustic pickup and install a 1/4" jack in the butt of the guitar

Like this:
Big Twin | K&K Sound

Currently the guitar does not even have a strap pin down there. The Campellone tailpiece also has the right size hole to push in a jack.

But I'm not too excited about drilling a hole in the guitar ... even though it is a long way from becoming vintage.

[Max405]

I knew that was gonna get our Jabbs going..
JD

One: I hate making a 1/2 " hole in an old archtop where there was none previously. I particularly HATE the Fishman and Schatten endpin jacks. Yes, you need to ream out a 1/2" hole to fit that damn thing in that guitar. Irreversible damage to your GJS, mind you.

Two: the position of the 1/8" mini-jack off the pickguard is in an awkward position. The 1/8" jack is not the problem; its position is. Tapastring Vintage 1/8" endpin jack to the rescue. This fits in the standard 1/8" strap pin hole in the tailpiece. You run the wire from the pots through the treble f--hole and then terminate it at the Vintage Jack. Buy a 1/8" to 1/4" pigtail, hang it off the guitar strap with a leather loop, plug your guitar cord phone plug into that. Acts as strain relief, too, for those moments that someone oafish steps on your guitar cord.

*Tapastring Guitar Care Products | The "Vintage Jack" | End Pin Jack No Drilling Required

The 1/2" Fishman Endpin Jackass has done more damage to nice guitars than I can shake a stick at. Like all good ideas, it sounds great until you inevitably put the guitar up for resale. I can understand it when guitars are designed with the Fishman endpin jackass in mind but on nice vintage guitars...

I hate that damn thing on nice guitars where there wasn't a jack previously. Kinda wish they were all Tapastrings Vintage Jacks.

Think about it very carefully before you proceed. As you mentioned, what happens if the hole isn't drilled correctly? Tailpiece alignment issues and stuff.

[Jabberwocky]

...

The only downside is the price--$75 is a bit much, but if you want an elegant solution and don't want a major modification of your vintage instrument, it's the way to go.

$75 is cheap in comparison to the devaluation the GJS takes when modified for the 1/2" Fishman/Schatten endpin jack. I bought a Slaman Gibson 1923 L5 copy that the previous owner had modified for a Fishman endpin jack. It is glued to the endblock and there is no way of reverting it to its classic acoustic L5 form without major surgery. And then there will be the 1/2" hole that requires a mahogany bung, maple veneer and painting over. The Tapastring Vintage Endpin Jack could have done the same job without ruining its classic lines. That is how much I hate the Fishman jack. (And I hate the Samsung virtual keyboard.)

Talk to Frank Ford and ask him how many nice Martins that he has had to repair to return them to their original form when a pickup does not sound like a good idea for a Brasilian Rosewood Martin any longer and there is that Fishman jackasshole looking back at ya.

Don't do it to your nice Gibson Johnny Smith Natural that you took so long to find, Jazznote. The Fishman is really FUGLY.

[JazzNote]

I will second the opinion on the Tapastring jack. Installation is easy; if I can install it, anybody can. And it's VERY stable.

1) Virtually all endpin holes are reamed with a taper. Believe me when I tell you, if you tap this jack in with a small hammer, it ain't gonna come out without major effort on your part, and some specialized tools. Plus, if the natural friction isn't enough, they give you a small bag of resin to help out.

2) The plug itself has rubber gaskets and holds the right-angle 1/8" plug very sturdily, so there's little fear of it pulling out unexpectedly. It feels just as secure as a 1/4" jack IMO.

The only downside is the price--$75 is a bit much, but if you want an elegant solution and don't want a major modification of your vintage instrument, it's the way to go.

Thanks Doctor Jeff.

I have measured the hole in which the strap pin screw is located. It's almost 1/8" wide. So it seems that there is no need to really enlarge the hole. Can you second this? The price does not really matter to me, we are not talking big bucks here and it's for guitar which needs to be treated with respect ;-).

[JazzNote]

How about just using a 1/4" to 1/2" adapter (like used in audeo gear) - and securing the guitar cable by looping it behind the Strap - rather than doing surgery on the guitar.

Thanks oldane! Good idea, but i think the downside to this would be that the signal from the pu could be degraded because of the two plugs.

[JazzNote]

$75 is cheap in comparison to the devaluation the GJS takes when modified for the 1/2" Fishman/Schatten endpin jack. I bought a Slaman Gibson 1923 L5 copy that the previous owner had modified for a Fishman endpin jack. It is glued to the endblock and there is no way of reverting it to its classic acoustic L5 form without major surgery. And then there will be the 1/2" hole that requires a mahogany bung, maple veneer and painting over. The Tapastring Vintage Endpin Jack could have done the same job without ruining its clasdic lines. That is how much I hate the Fishman jack.

Talk to Frank Ford and ask him how many nice Martins that he has had to repair to return them to their original form when a pickup does not sound like a good idea for a Brasilian Rosewood Martin any longer and there is that Fishman jackasshole looking back at ya.

Don't do it to your nice Gibson Johnny Smith Natural that you took so long to find, Jazznote. The Fishman is really FUGLY.

Jabs - you convinced me - now i'm just evaluating what change the Tapastring Vintage 1/8" requires me to do.

[Jabberwocky]

Makes good reading:

FRETS.COM

It is OK to gulp. Which tosser did that to a nice BRW Martin?

[agentsmith]

Don't you have to drill a hole for this in most guitars? Most archtops I've seen use a screw, not a press-fit endpin. True, it's a smaller hole, but still a hole. Maybe I'm missing something, though.

most of the gibson archtops from the 50s used a press fit endpin

[Doctor Jeff]

If it's a screw endpin you currently have I think you would need to ream out a hole for an endpin or endpin jack. It's only ~1/4-3/8" in diameter, so less invasive than a 1/2" jack.

Endpin Jack Reamer | stewmac.com

If you want a no-mod solution, Barcus Berry makes a piezo pickup called the Outsider that I have on one of my guitars--does what it's supposed to, though these days I'm not a fan of contact pickups on archtops. It's currently on a dobro I have, where it sounds much better.

Barcus Berry 1457XL Outsider Piezo Transducer | Full Compass

[Bluedawg]

If it's a screw endpin you currently have I think you would need to ream out a hole for an endpin or endpin jack. It's only ~1/4-3/8" in diameter, so less invasive than a 1/2" jack.

Endpin Jack Reamer | stewmac.com

If you want a no-mod solution, Barcus Berry makes a piezo pickup called the Outsider that I have on one of my guitars--does what it's supposed to, though these days I'm not a fan of contact pickups on archtops. It's currently on a dobro I have, where it sounds much better.

Barcus Berry 1457XL Outsider Piezo Transducer | Full Compass

Do you have a preference for acoustic pickups on archtops?

[Doctor Jeff]

Well, like I said, I had the BB Outsider mounted on a vintage Harmony archtop--pressed solid top. It did sound very acoustic, but was tricky to adjust with the preamp (Fishman ProEq 2) and amp (Fishman Artist) and didn't really fit in with the combo I was playing with.

I eventually removed it from the Harmony (had to glue on a thin wood shim and sand it to the archtop profile btw) and put it on a Regal dobro. I installed a DeArmond 1000 reissue on the Harmony I find more to my liking (though pretty noisy at home).

I haven't tried the other piezo pickups--undersaddle, etc. While the idea of amplifying the acoustic sound for performance sounds good in theory, in practice unless you are playing gypsy jazz or an older style of jazz, it doesn't really fit in with group playing. It is always hard to get rid of the quack while still providing a good balanced tone.

A good humbucker or P90 is much better in that context, IMO.

But, on the positive side, the BB is cheap (~$60) and requires no mods to the guitar, so it's an easy way to try amplifying an acoustic guitar without committing a lot of money or drilling things into the body.