Low Wattage Tube Amp Help

**Michael M** · 08-26-2016, 11:03 AM

I’m looking for a versatile low wattage tube amp which can cover playing jazz standards as well as more contemporary smooth jazz. I will primarily be using my 335 through this amp.

I played for years with a group that covers a lot of smooth jazz, old Crusaders stuff, funk, Steely Dan, Grover Washington, etc., as well as jazz standards. I have taken a year break from this band but will be reconnecting with them again soon. When I was playing with them I used several amps but the one that had the sound in my opinion was a Dr. Z Maz 18 Watt combo with 2X10. I bought that amp used and since it weighs as much as a twin knew that schlepping it would be an issue and yes indeed it was – what a beast. It was parked at our rehearsal space and never moved which also meant I did not get to enjoy it at home. I sold that amp for a little more than I originally paid for it when I took my break – great amp. Also, 18 watts was too much power and I had to install a brake lite to get into the mild breakup zone I’m looking for when soloing – this band has a drummer but is not a loud band. I could of course get a lower wattage Dr. Z M12 with a 10” speaker at 37 pounds for $1,500. This is a very basic amp which does not even have a master volume but could sound great – I have no way of playing one so I don’t know.

I was thinking a cheaper and much more versatile option would be to try a Frenzel FM-5E3 DP "Deluxe Plus". This amp has a lot of features, is 25 watts and I would add the power selector to cut by ½ to ¼ power. With other options this is around a $800 amp which I would need to pair with a nice speaker cab. It seems to be an incredibly flexible amp but - I have no way of playing one so I don’t know! Any thoughts?

**Boston Joe** · 08-26-2016, 12:30 PM

The Mesa Boogie 5:25 express looks pretty good. You can knock it down to 15 watts. Mesas always put out good fusion tones.

But personally, I'd have kept the Maz and gotten a hand truck for it. It's an unbeatable amp.

**Gitfiddler** · 08-26-2016, 12:44 PM

Try a Fender Princeton Reverb (vintage or 65 reissue, depending on your budget).

**Michael M** · 08-26-2016, 01:39 PM

Thanks Joe. Messa make a good product and I own their studio preamp - something to consider.

Thanks GF - I'm on your page. A Fender Princeton or Deluxe could deliver what I'm looking for. I don't want the hassles of an old vintage amp but do want the old school quality - point-to-point hand-wired with no printed circuits - I was hoping the Frenzel FM-5E3 might deliver this. It's very difficult when you can't actually play through the amp.

**MaxTwang** · 08-26-2016, 02:13 PM

Ceriatone OTS 20 is worth a look. 20 watts from a tube amp can still get loud.

**339 in june** · 08-26-2016, 02:30 PM

I run a Mesa Boogie TA15, and I'm happy. Nice clean, lovely grit (and some crazy, too, if you want it)<br>Takes pedals quite well, but nô reverb.

**Sean65** · 08-26-2016, 03:44 PM

If you have any Supro dealers close by be sure to check them out. They're making some crazy good sounding amps for not a lot more than you have budgeted for.

**maggles55** · 08-26-2016, 04:20 PM

Egnater Tweaker 15 watt: Versatile, light weight, cheap!

**neatomic** · 08-26-2016, 04:29 PM

unfortunately, the majority of big name tube amp companies are (for the most part) not doing ptp wiring...inc fender (non custom shop), vox, mesa and even supro...have to look to the boutique or kit type builders

a single 6l6 tube amp might be perfect for your needs..check this allen

Allen Amplification - Chihuahua

cheers

**marcwhy** · 08-26-2016, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by Michael M

Thanks Joe. Messa make a good product and I own their studio preamp - something to consider.

Thanks GF - I'm on your page. A Fender Princeton or Deluxe could deliver what I'm looking for. I don't want the hassles of an old vintage amp but do want the old school quality - point-to-point hand-wired with no printed circuits - I was hoping the Frenzel FM-5E3 might deliver this. It's very difficult when you can't actually play through the amp.

Hey Michael,
The Frenzel CAN deliver! His amps are fantastic, and quite the deal compared to other "boutique" makers. I always preferred the "fender" input, and a buddy of mine uses the "marshall" input (for jazz), and he sounds great! Versatile, solid, great sounding amps!

Marc

**Thumpalumpacus** · 08-27-2016, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by maggles55

Egnater Tweaker 15 watt: Versatile, light weight, cheap!

Good option except the lack of PTP. I love 'em, myself, probably the only EL-84 amp I'm enthusiastic about.

**maggles55** · 08-27-2016, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

Good option except the lack of PTP. I love 'em, myself, probably the only EL-84 amp I'm enthusiastic about.

Not an EL-84 amp. It comes with 6V6's, but you can run most octal tubes.

What is PTP?

**lammie200** · 08-27-2016, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by maggles55

...What is PTP?

I think that he means point-to-point wiring versus IC. I think that I mean integrated circuit when I say IC. I think that I mean a circuit board with components that are placed via robot on the circuit board and difficult to test and/or replace without damaging the circuit board if they are defective.

**Boston Joe** · 08-27-2016, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by lammie200

I think that he means point-to-point wiring versus IC. I think that I mean integrated circuit when I say IC. I think that I mean a circuit board with components that are placed via robot on the circuit board and difficult to test and/or replace without damaging the circuit board if they are defective.

I don't really have a problem with IC-based amps if they're well built. My Mesas were always reliable in that respect. My only beef is when they mount the tube sockets on the board instead of on the chassis. I don't like the stress that puts on the board when inserting or removing tubes.

**vernon** · 08-27-2016, 11:49 AM

In my experience I really don't think you can go below 20 watts tube with an ES-335. I've tried. Actually maxtwang's suggestion of Ceriatone OTS mini is worth checking out. PTP 20 watts fantastic Dumble style overdrive. I had one for over a year... tweaker's delight! It does require the buffer C-lator though. I had one for over a year and it does 335 and jazz stuff pretty well. Moved on to a Milkman 40 watt 2 6L6 head with a few different cabs. Sometimes you just have to spend the money to get what you really want. Good luck with your quest.

**999369** · 08-27-2016, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gitfiddler

Try a Fender Princeton Reverb (vintage or 65 reissue, depending on your budget).

+1

( 65' reissue )

The most popular Economy and is very nice ( Sound )low wattage compact amp

**Thumpalumpacus** · 08-27-2016, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by maggles55

Not an EL-84 amp. It comes with 6V6's, but you can run most octal tubes.

I stand corrected, I don't know why I was "remembering" EL-84s last night. Perhaps that's why I like it? :hmm:

Originally Posted by maggles55

What is PTP?

"Point-to-point", leads connected directly to terminii, rather than using printed circuit boards.

**Boston Joe** · 08-27-2016, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by vernon

In my experience I really don't think you can go below 20 watts tube with an ES-335.

What do you mean by this? What does the wattage of the amp have to do with the type of guitar?

**neatomic** · 08-27-2016, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Joe

I don't really have a problem with IC-based amps if they're well built. My Mesas were always reliable in that respect. My only beef is when they mount the tube sockets on the board instead of on the chassis. I don't like the stress that puts on the board when inserting or removing tubes.

worse than that, if a power tube fails and sparks, it can take out/burn a piece of the circuit board..on a ptp you'd just smoke the grid resistor

cheers

**vernon** · 08-27-2016, 04:52 PM

I couldn't get a 335 tone I liked out of 5 -15 watt tube amps... Just didn't adequately translate the sound coming from the 335. This is just my experience. Others may have different experiences.

**Boston Joe** · 08-27-2016, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by vernon

I couldn't get a 335 tone I liked out of 5 -15 watt tube amps... Just didn't adequately translate the sound coming from the 335. This is just my experience. Others may have different experiences.

I'm not sure how that has anything to do with the wattage, though. Unless you just don't like lower powered tubes.

**Thumpalumpacus** · 08-28-2016, 03:32 AM

To my ears, small glass sounds boxier -- I prefer big bottles for a more open sound. Perhaps that perception, subjective thought it might be, is in play?

**Boston Joe** · 08-28-2016, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

To my ears, small glass sounds boxier -- I prefer big bottles for a more open sound. Perhaps that perception, subjective thought it might be, is in play?

I guess. I've always loved the sound of EL-84 based amps. That's what runs in my Maz, and I don't think that amp sounds boxy at all. I've also had EL-84s in my Vox and Mesa amps. They always sounded good to me.

**Greentone** · 08-28-2016, 09:37 AM

You cite a lot of music that Larry Carlton did. Why not use the amp he did for all that music--the Tweed Deluxe? 15 watts, glorious sound.

**Michael M** · 08-28-2016, 09:43 AM

Thanks to everyone for your many great suggestions. I had such a great experience with my Maz that I want to stay in the boutique pond for this next amp and you guys have offered some great suggestions.

Ceriatone
Allen
Andersen
Supro
Frenzel

Lots of great options here. I will continue to research these brands and start reaching out to the builders themselves to get help with what I'm looking for in this next amp.

Thanks,

Michael