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I worked in a warehouse for a dealer with some 17 stores in the Northeast and played / tuned EVERY Martin that came through there years back when Martins were mostly Brazilian rosewood. After every shipment arrived I picked the one I liked best and put it aside for myself to ultimately buy.
All were dreadnaughts (D18 to D45) and it's AMAZING how many guitars changed the reserved spot after comparing them side by side.
I wound up with the loudest, sweetest Martin D35, only a bit better than a D18 that held the reserved place for a few months. So much for the Martin mystique, it doesn't exist to me.
That said...
I don't know of a better way to compare gits than IN HAND. Memory fades, amps change, room acoustics are different, even strings, picks AND the weather can and will change the tryout. Memories suck as a reference.
Failing an in hand or a side by side comparison, to me a 175 is a risky buy, but IMO, nothing I own or have played is like a good 175.
I currently have more than a few archtops (among them some pretty respectable gits) and they are all unique enough to stand alone and even side by side with my 175 but are not equal to it.
So convinced of this I am that I pooh pooh any one saying they found one. A 335? sure, 330? OK, 125? yup, but not a good 175.
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01-02-2017 09:46 AM
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I don't remember if I posted on this thread and I'm sure not looking through 4 pages of posts to confirm that.
But that said the Burny (Japan) ES175 copies are very nice. Model RFA-75, maple neck and lam maple bodies. Everything is a dead copy of the Gibson 175. Look on eBay, you may have to resort to doing a search on Completed Listings, but they are out there, most of them in Japan but so what ?? I think delivered they may cost you all of $900.00. Buddy of mine has one and next to his Ibanez JP20 he says it is the guitar he gigs with the most. He says it's got that thunk.
Big
here is one, I have no affiliation with the seller, just showing you this as an example, you may have to search on Yahoo or elsewhere to find more photos.
NEW FERNANDES BURNY RFA-75 VN Electric Guitar | eBay
Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 01-02-2017 at 10:42 AM.
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Those are made by the same factory that did the Aria Pro II Gibson copies in the 1970's I think.. Matsumoku? They were definitely solid guitars, with a lot of care put into the building of them. My PE180 shows its age, but it sounds and plays fabulous.
Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
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Just for some historical jollies, I went hunting for the latest photo I could find of Joe Pass with his 1962 ES175. The latest I could find was the cover of his "Live at Yoshi's" album that came out in 1993 (or 1992 I forget). I'm assuming that's "the" guitar in the picture, not some other ES175.
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That is probably his 62. Soon thereafter, Gibson made two prototypes for a Joe Pass signature model and Joe played those for the rest of his life. One of those guitars went back to Gibson after Joe's death (Henry J. or an exec there must have it), the other went to Joe's widow (wife number 3) who lent it to John Pisano. The 62 175 is "missing" Joe Pass Jr. (Joe's adopted son from marriage number two) told me that he believes John Pisano has it. John Pisano told me that he does not. It's whereabouts remains a mystery.... Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Just for some historical jollies, I went hunting for the latest photo I could find of Joe Pass with his 1962 ES175. The latest I could find was the cover of his "Live at Yoshi's" album that came out in 1993 (or 1992 I forget). I'm assuming that's "the" guitar in the picture, not some other ES175.
It is too bad that Joe's son and his widow ended up in dispute. That is probably the reason the Joe Pass signature model never came to market.
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That's got to be a great value buy if its a Japanese built 175 type guitar Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
I mean that's cheap !
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Japan or China made these days is irrelevant my friend... My buddy Johnny Latch got one and raves how it's got "that thunk" and gigs with it a lot. With the Chinese builds MAYBE you would want to gut the wiring and pickup and go with American high end parts - at that price point it's easy, it's only ONE pickup.
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Jack, did you purchase a travel guitar?
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I know this is a very old thread. But I just read through all of it, because it was so entertaining. A real page turner.
So full of the cliches of brands and price hierarchy you normally see with guitars, specially in the Jazz world. Less snobbery in the Rock n' Roll side of things for some reason. But some solid points and suggestions were countered by just subjectivity, which is of course pointless. The whole principle of the thread is pointless, as it's clear the OP had a very personal opinion of what an ES-175 sounds like. Even though as many pointed out, not even ES-175s sound like ES-175s.
I lost my ES-175, not to travelling, but stolen at a gig. I know many people who own expensive Gibsons which they play only in their "bedroom" and for gigs they buy cheaper options. After this incident I started questioning the point of having a guitar only I hear in my bedroom. I definitely wasn't looking for the experience of having to watch over my shoulder, now even more so, when gigging. So I found myself in the same shoes as the OP and having to find a replacement to the ES-175 which came the closest but didn't cost as much as a car.
I found a very good test and report by a Jazz player online, who went through the trouble of buying many ES-175s copy type of guitars and testing them for months, trying to find "the best ES-175" and in the end he chose the Epiphone as the closest. It has been a couple of years and I can no longer find that post. Don't even remember which forum it was, but it had links to videos on YT of his tests and comparisons. Of course, in typical fashion, because we all always know better than the next guy, I ignored his conclusion that the Epiphone was the best. Even if in the comparisons it did sound the best or on the top 3. It had to be youtube being not accurate enough. I also ignored his very solid argument that the reason the Epiphone sounded the closest was probably because they are the only ones which are allowed to copy the specs as close as possible, being owned by Gibson. No, proof anf solid arguments was not enough. I had to do it my way and spend my own money to find out. Wish I hadn't.
So I went, basically doing the same as this guy had already done. But probably in a smaller scale, as a couple of the guitars I didn't buy, I just tried them in a store for a hour or so and decided they were not the "ES-175". Long story short, after about a year, and owning a few ES-175 "copies", which I will not mention which ones, as it's pointless, but they are basically all mentioned in this thread, I found myself with the Epiphone ES-175 and agreeing with the guy that it is indeed the closest thing to the real thing. The guy even said the Epiphone was closer to what the ES-175 is normally perceived than many real ES-175 of different eras. And now I see what he meant.
And to the OP, no the Epiphone doesn't have a maple neck. Unless they lied on their brochures and specs. If it's a Premium, all the specs which really matter in weight are there. Even the Gibson pups. If it's the Reissue, the main difference, again which really has any weight, is the clear coat and pups, which you can easily change. Ironically the Reissue actually has better tuners than the Premium. The Epiphone was the guitar which got me the most from my old ES-175.
One of course has to decide what an ES-175 sounds like and gives him first. But once that is done, not much point in asking people, "which guitar sounds the closest to what only I hear from an ES-175?". The ES-175 doesn't have only one sound and we all know that.
I bought the Epiphone with the intention of eventually buying the real thing again. It has been a couple of years and the more the time passes, the less need I see. It would probably be just a wall ornament. A very expensive one. The Epiphone does all the Gibson did for me and all another Gibson would do. But I don't have to care if it gets stolen in a gig again and I don't have to play it only inside my bedroom for myself. Sure, I can't brag it's a Gibson to my peers, but I still have my ES-335. But I also can't say there was any irreplaceable part of the experience in my old ES-175 that the Epi is not doing well enough.
OP vanished from the thread. I wonder what he ended up getting. Maybe he is gigging an Epiphone for all we know.
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Agree with you 100 percent about the Epiphone 175 premium sounding like a Gibson.I have one in wine red and just love it.A lot of guys didn't like the thinner neck on the Epiphone but that never bothered me at all.
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Jack Zucker goes through a lot of guitars. For awhile he was "agentsmith" but later reverted to his old moniker. I don't know whether he still has an ES-175. The guitars I recall, guaranteed to be an incomplete list, include a Gibson Barney Kessel, several Ibanez Pat Metheny models, and an Ibanez GB-10. Originally Posted by NoJhere
He often posts his thoughts on jazzguitar.be and thegearpage.net IIRC. I believe he also posts on a Facebook (?) newsgroup that I've never seen because i'm an old fuddy-duddy and refuse to use Facebook, which I regard as an incarnation of pure evil.
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Jack has been banned more than once, and returned by using new accounts with new usernames. He's still very much here.
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Ah, that explains a lot. I have seen his posts on the ES-175 there. I normally just skip his posts as they add nothing to any ES-175 discussion. It's basically the same over and over. Originally Posted by dconeill
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To me, this Peerless sounds lovely. Lots of talking and not much playing though! This guy does some great vids for the less advanced player like myself.
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Originally Posted by sgosnell
Banned for what reason?
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You could get a late 50's / early 60's Guild for around 3K, or even a little less. Having A/B’ed them with Gibsons from the era, they are occasionally very much in the ballpark, imo, depending upon the specimen. I owned a '56 CE-100 for a while, loved it, but it was maple and somewhat bright.
Last edited by enalnitram; 05-09-2024 at 10:09 AM.
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Can't tell you without getting banned. Originally Posted by Doug B
Jack certainly knows his 175s tho.
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I had 3 175s in the 80's, trying to find one for a Yes tribute band I was playing in, and didn't bond with any of them. I ended up with a '78 Ibanez FA-100, which I still have and will NEVER get rid of. She has Benson 12s on her now and is just a lovely sounding and playing guitar. I have no idea what a Gibson ES-175 aficionado would think of it, but I absolutely love it.
Here she is with two now gone friends
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I almost never take my 175 out of the house, but when I do take it to play in public it will be in my line of sight 100% of the time. Mine is a well-played guitar, not a rare collector's model, but would take awhile to replace if I lost it.
In the past I gigged with the following: Epiphone Joe Pass with Stew Mac Parsons Street pickups; Peerless Sunset with OEM Epi Classic 57 pickups; Gibson ES-135 with Gibson Classic 57s. They all got close enough to the 175 sound that I didn't miss the 175. The Peerless in particular really nailed that dark Jim Hall/Pat Martino tone.
Last month I took out my Gretsch Double Anni reissue. I also like it quite a lot, though there were some issues getting the sound right through the PA. It is fully hollow but has a soundpost. P90-type pickups. It certainly has that 175 "pop", which is the main thing that attracted me. Whether it has the "thunk" is another question.
If I were in the OPs position, looking for a cheaper replacement for gigs, I would probably consider one of the Godin Kingpin 2s. The quality is there, the price is right, they're easy to find and replace if needed. I don't know that it sounds exactly like a 175, but a lot of pro players have used them such as Gray Sargent backing up Tony Bennett.
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A Ban on the Banned Ban. (Or something...) Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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Banned in a box? Originally Posted by Doug B
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Yep. Jack is passionate about guitars, and is willing to churn through a lot of them and to share his experiences. Over the years, I think he has saved me a lot of money by demonstrating various guitars which allowed me to say "eh, not my thing." Then the GAS for that particular model is gone. However, that's also worked in the other direction and he has demoed guitars that I've ended up obsessing about. Thankfully he has never inspired me to go down the rabbit hole of amp modeling, etc. Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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I like that one! Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
Doug
Maybe also Banned on the Run?
(Go ask Paul-I think he'll know.)Last edited by Doug B; 05-09-2024 at 12:42 PM.
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I don't really recall. It's been awhile since the last one. I wasn't involved in the threads, IIRC. Dirk has a short fuse for anything he considers disrespectful. Originally Posted by Doug B
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