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02-20-2024 09:41 AM
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Below the two possible hollow-body guitar body wedge shapes - seen from the side - starting from the first, basic shape with constant depth of the sides, top and back edges being parallel.
All are being used. The second and third shape is more commonly found on flat-top guitars.
The third shape is found on some violins and many cellos, though as a matter of fact their shape is more complicated and elaborated than shown here in a simplified form. This is an extra work step, so they do it for a reason - while most players wouldn't even notice it.
Sorry for double-posting of the pixx - that actual attachment management is crappy!Last edited by Ol' Fret; 02-20-2024 at 02:04 PM.
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The Höfner Jazzica body wedge is very unusual.
Does Höfner still build higher-value bowed stringed instruments? They should have known better; all in my opinion, of course.
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Mal Waldron was one of my favorite piano players. I still own many of his recordings - many of these are only available in the USA or in Japan. And I'm still a fan of Bobby Jones' tenor sax playing,
Costa Lukacs's infinitely inspired guitar playing,
Peter O'Mara or Geoff Goodman
Peter Tuscher and Karl Ratzer, and many more.
Didn't know that Titus Waldenfels is a collector, but certainly like his more unconventional musical tributes. There was a crazy guitar and related gear collector in Munich - he sadly passed away several years ago - whose large flat was full: guitars leaned against all the walls, valuable vintage instruments stacked on top of each other on the floor, expensive vintage tube amps on the balcony. The most serious GAS ...
As an older white man I simply refuse to complain more about the disappearance of the jazz culture. It doesn't help ... now that I can only be found in Munich now and then. For everything there is a season.Last edited by Ol' Fret; 02-20-2024 at 01:29 PM.
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Yes, that's 1993. Fake abalone purfling, rounded ends to the fretboard, Shadow pickup. The model got some significant changes when it became the "Custom" in @2000, including a carved solid spruce top, although it took awhile for them to sort out the problematic finish. Originally, the rims were very thick, so no kerfing was necessary. Among my first recommendations when I started working with them was to make the rims much thinner and to add kerfing, which they did. By the mid-oughts, much less finish was (typically) used, and the Jazzica Custom was a much improved guitar compared to its decade-older sibling.
I agree. How about just calling it a shellac finish?
So... what do the curved lines with the dots represent?
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Right angles
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Duh, OK. What's the issue with that?
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In cellos this would probably be a functional, subtle equivalent of the Manzer wedge, giving the player a bit easier access to the higher reaches of the fingerboard. Or at least those players who don't use one of those crazy endpins that puts the instrument "almost" horizontal.
I too don't see why it'd be wrong to have the wedge made only by the back; I think that (or a version where it's *mostly* by the back) is what you see most often in big flat-tops.
Ole: just explaining briefly why you think it's wrong does not oblige you to enter in any subsequent discussion about it. In particular if the "IMHO" above implies you just thinks that it looks wrong, in which case there isn't even anything to discuss
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Hi folks, I'm new to this forum, and I'm deeply impressed with all the things you know about these old guitars!
Might I ask your help with identifying the maker/model of this old guitar?
I bought it may years ago as a "1960s German archtop guitar" because I liked the look and the sound, but there is no stamp or label anywhere.
In fact, it must have been reworked and even repainted at some point, and some parts may have been replaced.
On the net I found a "Juwel" with a walnut body that looks quite similar (Juwel Vintage Archtop Guitar From 1950 Walnut Brown | Reverb), but other parts look more like parts that Hoyer used (e.g. Arnold Hoyer Esquire Natural 1950s'60s Archtop Hollow Body Acoustic Guitar | eBay). For the headstock, I can't find a similar one anywhere.
Has anyone ever seen a similar guitar, or do you think it was maybe pieced together from different bits and pieces?
I'd be happy and grateful if you could help me with this one :-)
Cheers, Stratty
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Hi, can't help other than to say both the Juwei & the Hoyer appear to have solid carved spruce tops whereas yours is laminated. Your top may even have a coloured woodstain or varnish to paler underlying timber. One pic isn't much to go on! Good Luck, there are some knowledgeable folk on here.
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RJVB, I would understand some opinions as food for own thought - what about discussing some thoughts and insights, new and old ones, with yourself?
The very own interpretation of logic "in which case there isn't even anything to discuss" overwhelms my simple mind:
So, if I don't recognize things myself, then they basically can't exist? Huh? I could only follow this logic if I denied the existence of things in general (like here about mechanics and ergonomics / human feeling), e. g. being a nihilist.
It makes existence both saddening and charming at the same time that there are simple or more complex things under heaven that cannot be described or discussed in a halfway satisfactory way either in textform, especially in a different language, or in sketches. It's a bit like describing the feeling of love. And there's the basic crux of discussions in web forums: one person tries to explain or point to something, the next rudely brushes it off the table with the deadpan argument "Nope"; but there can be worlds of difference in perception and experience between the two.
It also doesn't seem to be easy to accept what I said before - in clear anticipation of the failure that would follow - namely the request to deepen certain things only with guitars, or guitar parts, in hand.
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Stewing again over some fotos of early German vintage electric guitars like the following one (courtesy HR on KAPITEL02 BERLINER ZEIT / GERMAN- CARVE / MARKNEUKIRCHEN – Roger Schlaggitarren ):
It shows Wenzel Rossmeisl with some of his guitars for sale at the Music Fair (probably in Leipzig) in 1950.
It is likely that the model marked by the red arrow is a solidbody or, at least, very thin chambered electric model made by Wenzel and his son.
This photo would confirm that Roger, despite all the adverse consequences in a country devastated by war, was by no means behind Leo Fender in terms of time - not at all!
For anyone interested in this small and specialized field:
A very well-researched dissertation was published in 2023 by Dr. Lena Böhme with the title [translated] "Electric and electrified guitars in the German Reich until the end of the Second World War".
It's in German language only, but a small abstract in English can be found here (scroll down): Qucosa - Leipzig: Elektrische und elektrifizierte Gitarren im Deutschen Reich bis zum Ende des Zweiten Weltkriegs
Lena found some surprising remarkable sources ... eg when claiming that of particular interest would be the renewed mention of the Roger pickup in the [cited] report on the 1940 [sic!] Fall Fair, as this would prove the possibility and existence of electrified archtop guitars before 1945.
The dissertation contains some new and amazing findings, although a few postulated points remain questionable (e.g. the alleged production capacities of Franz Hirsch in his Schönbach era). The full text of the dissertation:
ul.qucosa.de/api/qucosa%3A87901/attachment/ATT-0/
Enjoy!
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Yes, Paul Bigsby is one of the pioneers of the solid body guitar and certainly George Beauchamp and a few more names.
For me, it's not primarily about the competitive idea of who was really the first to take the step towards a solid or at least semi-solid electric guitar. It is noteworthy that the Rossmeisls probably must have created the guitar model mentioned above before 1950, before that foto at the spring trade fair was shot. But the amazing thing about it, IMHO, is the extremely limited economic and social conditions under which this was achieved. Germany was roughly 50 percent destroyed; there was neither enough food, let alone parts for luxury items such as electric guitars. The terrible “hunger winter” of 1946/47 probably still cost over 100,000 lives. A recent book about the mess at that time caused a relatively large response even in the USA: Book Review | Aftermath by Harald Jähner (momentmag.com)
Even some well preserved, more or less entry level guitars, like your Rod Hoyer, can be surprisingly good guitars, but, please, consider that these were for the most part mail-order guitars, comparable to Montgomery Ward, Harmony or Kay instruments. It's fun to discover the not so wide-spread higher quality guitars.
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You are welcome, Hammertone! Ploughing through a dissertation is certainly something for a rainy weekend or two.
Btw., as an owner of NOS "Roger electric 54" parts you could start to assemble some models.
We did a test run of a nice original example (these were developed before 1954) - just its Ideal pickups, sitting on that weird-looking plate (either brass or aluminum) have been rewound - compared it against a Hopf Saturn, a Höfner Club, both nice guitars in the similar class. The underrated Roger simply blew us away in terms of sound, attack and playability. In the meantime, it seems that some Berlin-based players favor these funny and simple little axes over their (much higher-priced) vintage Telecasters - IMHO, for good reason.
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In this case the guitar is relatively subdued in the kitsch department
(With this one we're getting close to what I call edel kitsch though - but not so much I considered buying one for a blue monday)
Charlie Garnett - Franken Tele
Yesterday, 08:52 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos