Specing out 18" acoustic archtop for fingerstyle solo usage

[NSJ]

How would you spec out an 18 inch fully carved arch top for finger style solo usage ?

Nut width ? 1.75 or greater?
no cutaway ?
Depth? 3.54" ? Greater?
frets? Type and number (20 or 22)?
Fingerboard wood ---?
top? Spruce ?
back and sides ? Maple ?
bracing ? Parallel or not?

other factors , variables or recommendations ?? Thanks

[Stringswinger]

Hmm...If I wanted an 18 inch fingerstyle jazz guitar...

Adi Spruce top carved thin

Flame maple back, sides and neck

Ebony board, no inlays (side dots only)

Stainless jumbo frets

Ebony bridge, Brass Tailpiece w/ Ebony overlay

3 inch depth

25 inch scale

X Braced

Venetian Cutaway (deep)

1.75 nut

Wood bindings, wood fingerrest

Schaller tuners with ebony buttons

Blonde finish

Kent Armstrong Handmade JS pickup

[Hammertone]

Just get one of these:
http://www.solomonguitars.com/baritone.html

• 18" non-cutaway archtop guitar with oval soundhole
• Hand carved European spruce top with X bracing
• Hand carved curly European maple back and sides
• Quartersawn, one-piece hard maple neck
• Quartersawn holly or cherry binding with black definition line
• Custom Tatsuta beta-titanium truss rod
• Ebony "snakehead" unbound headstock with Solomon logo
• Unbound, quartersawn ebony fretboard with EVO alloy
• gold fretwire
• 13 fret neck/body junction
• 28" scale, 10"-16" compound fretboard radius
• 1 7/8" nut width, TUSQ synthetic ivory nut
• Waverly tuners with ebony buttons
• Hand-rubbed, French-polish shellac finish
• Laminated soundport on side
• 2 piece, adjustable African blackwood bridge and saddle
• Custom Cedar Creek deluxe hard-shell case
• Base price is $8,249

[NSJ]

Just get one of these:
http://www.solomonguitars.com/baritone.html

• 18" non-cutaway archtop guitar with oval soundhole
• Hand carved European spruce top with X bracing
• Hand carved curly European maple back and sides
• Quartersawn, one-piece hard maple neck
• Quartersawn holly or cherry binding with black definition line
• Custom Tatsuta beta-titanium truss rod
• Ebony "snakehead" unbound headstock with Solomon logo
• Unbound, quartersawn ebony fretboard with EVO alloy
• gold fretwire
• 13 fret neck/body junction
• 28" scale, 10"-16" compound fretboard radius
• 1 7/8" nut width, TUSQ synthetic ivory nut
• Waverly tuners with ebony buttons
• Hand-rubbed, French-polish shellac finish
• Laminated soundport on side
• 2 piece, adjustable African blackwood bridge and saddle
• Custom Cedar Creek deluxe hard-shell case
• Base price is $8,249

Ha, I have a 16 " Solomon guitar, it's actually pictured on the main website front page. I bought it from Roger who used to be a member here, which enabled him to buy his dream vintage L5.

Solomon makes great guitars. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Bluedawg]

Those Solomon's are always pretty ...

A 1 7/8 inch wide nut is pretty wide

And a 28 inch scale probably sounds magnificent, but it could be challenge for big finger stretching chords

Wish I had the cash for something like that


I'm really enjoying my 18 inch Campellone with the 1 13/16 inch wide nut, but Campellone seems to be avoiding making 18 inch guitars lately

[iim7V7IM7]

Here are a few thoughts:

1. Select a luthier that you wish to partner based on their experience, reputation, budget and ability to understand your needs after having some discussions with a number of builders.
2. Have an in-depth discussions with them regarding your goals for the instrument, your playing style as well as past likes and dislikes with other guitars.
3. Listen to their recommendations and not the cyber-hord.

They are the only people who both understand how to manipulate their guitars and have hopefully had an in-depth discussion with you.

Good Luck,

[Hammertone]

Ha, I have a 16 " Solomon guitar, it's actually pictured on the main website front page. I bought it from Roger who used to be a member here, which enabled him to buy his dream vintage L5.
Solomon makes great guitars. Thanks for pointing that out.

Yes, I know you have Roger's old guitar - that's why I posted the link.
Hooray for Roger Placer!
Hooray for Erich Solomon!
Hooray for Steve Longobardi!

[Jabberwocky]

Why 18"? Unless you have always wanted an 18" for its own sake, I advise you to re-evaluate the size. 18" is not a practical size and brings no tonal benefits if you are intending to plug in and play amplified acoustic fingerstyle jazz.

I am afraid you may regret it if you order it new. On the used market it is a different thing; there are bargains to be had.

17" is about the max I would go. 16" is the sweet spot size and I would look for another flavour of 16". I know you bought Roger's Solomon. Classical guitars aren't very big but they are full of tone. José Feliciano had Kirk Sand build him a 16" nylon string classical guitar but that is an oddity in the nylon string classical world.

There are used 18" archtops you should try before you commit to a build. The Epiphone Emperor, Gibson Super 300, Heritage Super Eagle. There is one 18" Heritage Johnny Smith, if you can find it.

I don't think 18" brings any benefit to the table for fingerstyle jazz. And they are hard to sell. Joe Jewell had a 19" Borys acoustic archtop for sale a few years back. That was hard to sell. But Folkways Music eventually sold it.

You would do well to talk to Bill Comins, John Buscarino, Steve Andersen, and Bryant Trenier (who builds an 18" New Yorker). And Roger Borys, of course. He showed me a photo of an 18" he just delivered to a customer. It is on his Facebook page.


Or maybe go with an Eric Skye 00 12th-fret to the neck steel-string or jazz nylon string like a Kirk Sand or Paul McGill. Pasquale Grasso plays a 16" Trenier fingerstyle.

I have a 1953 Super 300 with a 1 11/16" nut and 25.5" scale length. Do I wish that it were smaller? Hell, yeah. Great for chunking out chords but for solo fingerstyle, 16" or smaller is the best.

[rlrhett]

I have to agree with Jabberwocky. Added width at the lower bout does not necessarily equate to better acoustic tone. I've built from 18" down to 14". Larger can be louder; but "fuller", or "richer", comes more from how well voiced the top is than the size of the box -- at least in my experience.

18" can be very uncomfortable as a player. 3" deep by 16" wide seems a real sweet spot for me. YMMV.


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[rlrhett]

I should add that my bias is towards archtops that sound great unplugged or mic'ed. I know that is not most people's focus. Take what I say with a grain of salt.


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[NSJ]

Why 18"? Unless you have always wanted an 18" for its own sake, I advise you to re-evaluate the size. 18" is not a practical size and brings no tonal benefits if you are intending to plug in and play amplified acoustic fingerstyle jazz.

I am afraid you may regret it if you order it new. On the used market it is a different thing; there are bargains to be had.

17" is about the max I would go. 16" is the sweet spot size and I would look for another flavour of 16". I know you bought Roger's Solomon. Classical guitars aren't very big but they are full of tone. José Feliciano had Kirk Sand build him a 16" nylon string classical guitar but that is an oddity in the nylon string classical world.

There are used 18" archtops you should try before you commit to a build. The Epiphone Emperor, Gibson Super 300, Heritage Super Eagle. There is one 18" Heritage Johnny Smith, if you can find it.

I don't think 18" brings any benefit to the table for fingerstyle jazz. And they are hard to sell. Joe Jewell had a 19" Borys acoustic archtop for sale a few years back. That was hard to sell. But Folkways Music eventually sold it.

You would do well to talk to Bill Comins, John Buscarino, Steve Andersen, and Bryant Trenier (who builds an 18" New Yorker). And Roger Borys, of course. He showed me a photo of an 18" he just delivered to a customer. It is on his Facebook page.


Or maybe go with an Eric Skye 00 12th-fret to the neck steel-string or jazz nylon string like a Kirk Sand or Paul McGill. Pasquale Grasso plays a 16" Trenier fingerstyle.

I have a 1953 Super 300 with a 1 11/16" nut and 25.5" scale length. Do I wish that it were smaller? Hell, yeah. Great for chunking out chords but for solo fingerstyle, 16" or smaller is the best.

See I'm mainly envisioning it for acoustic volume. I presume that the 18er will be louder

Plugging in, I have other guitars that are far better suited: Sadowsky Jim Hall and an L5C.

Does the existence of a cutaway take away from the acoustic tone? From my experience, I guess the difference seems nominal .

I'm 6'3" tall, so I don't think the size will really matter. I always play only sitting down as well. With a classical foam support, like Pasquale Grasso.

[Longways to Go]

I'm a fingerstyle only player. No picks, no nails.

If it was me shopping, I'd be looking for short scale, fairly narrow fretboard, mahogany neck, cutaway, oval or round hole, tweakable bridge, trapeze tail piece, nitro finish. Oh, and no pickguard.

[2bornot2bop]

I'm an 18" fan. If I have the option to acquire an 18" vs a 17" I'll take the 18" 10 times out of 10. I didn't find 18's "harder to sell." The fact that 18"s are available in very limited numbers, make them an uncommon find on the used market. Even so for the Heritage Super Eagle. Prior to obtaining my first 18 I'd heard the suggestion that 18's were a "hard sell." That guitar sold in weeks. I later bought 10 of them, and only one sold in a time frame later than 4 weeks...and only because I chose to sell that specific guitar at maximum price.

There's more to an 18's tonality than just pure volume. Your mileage may vary....we each hear differently. And each guitar is different...so all tone and volume suggestions are subjective, imo.

[Frank67]

Had this one built for me after much deliberation with the luthier an the late Patrick2. It is optimized for volume and I had fingerstyle n mind.

- 17"
- 1.75 nut
- spruce top carved and tap tuned, carved maple back and sides
- light build, thinly carved top
- full rounded neck profile
- no cutaway
- no f hole binding
- full contact bridge
- x braced
- 25.5 scale
- ebony fretboard

the loudest archtop I ever heard. Even louder than the Heritage JS. Super comfortable, plays like a dream, always the first guitar I pick up when playing unplugged (what I do mostly)

[Frank67]

Should add: thin shellac finish that does not dampen the top at all.

[mr. beaumont]

If I were having a FINGER STYLE instrument built, it wouldn't be large and it certainly wouldn't have steel strings.

[kkfan]

Had this one built for me after much deliberation with the luthier an the late Patrick2. It is optimized for volume and I had fingerstyle n mind.

- 17"
- 1.75 nut
- spruce top carved and tap tuned, carved maple back and sides
- light build, thinly carved top
- full rounded neck profile
- no cutaway
- no f hole binding
- full contact bridge
- x braced
- 25.5 scale
- ebony fretboard

the loudest archtop I ever heard. Even louder than the Heritage JS. Super comfortable, plays like a dream, always the first guitar I pick up when playing unplugged (what I do mostly)

Frank,

Beautiful guitar!

What strings do you use on that for unamplified finger-style playing?

Thanks!

[Frank67]

I really tried to like phosphor bronze strings and went through something like 10 different sets in the beginning. I just did not bond with them. In the end I homed in on John Pearse pure nickel 0.012s which feel nice and sound good both acoustically and amplified.

It is an absolutely outstanding guitar, at least the equal of the best you can buy from Heritage or Gibson. It is the loudest archtop I ever heard. I mostly play Gypsy on it since I prefer the sound and playability of an archtop. It will easily keep up with a flattop but a Selmer style guitar will still acoustically drown it out. It is amazing how these Selmer's project.

[Hammertone]

That's a nice-looking guitar.
Who built it?

[Stringswinger]

I really tried to like phosphor bronze strings and went through something like 10 different sets in the beginning. I just did not bond with them. In the end I homed in on John Pearse pure nickel 0.012s which feel nice and sound good both acoustically and amplified.

It is an absolutely outstanding guitar, at least the equal of the best you can buy from Heritage or Gibson. It is the loudest archtop I ever heard. I mostly play Gypsy on it since I prefer the sound and playability of an archtop. It will easily keep up with a flattop but a Selmer style guitar will still acoustically drown it out. It is amazing how these Selmer's project.

The Selmer style guitars are not necessarily louder than a loud archtop or a loud flattop, but they operate at a different part of the sonic spectrum that has way more "cut" to the ear. I have two Selmer style guitars, an oval hole and a D hole both made by Maurice Dupont of Cognac France. While they are pretty loud and cutting, I was once on an acoustic gig with another guitar player who was playing a resonator guitar. He was way louder than I was. The resonators may be the ultimate weapon of choice when amps are not allowed and you are playing single note lines.

Both of my Vintage Epiphone archtops are pretty loud and my Martin HD-28V is a cannon of a flattop. But My Dupont D hole is louder to my ear than any archtop that I have ever played.

[Frank67]

Master luthier Henning Doderer. I also have a Macaferri style guitar from him and both are off the charts amazing instruments. Light builds, impecabble craftsmanship, loud, clear, strong voices. A wonderful man.

[Frank67]

Sorry for derailing the thread NSJ. I hope you find what you are looking for!

[Greentone]

Hey, Roger (rpguitar) is still around. He hasn't posted anything in a few months, but I think he is actively lurking. If you asked him something directly I'm sure he'd chime in. Roger has a wealth of knowledge about acoustic and electric archtops in the husky (17" and 18") sizes. He also knows a thing or two about first-decade 16" L-5 guitars--lucky dawg.

[Bluedawg]

The Selmer style guitars are not necessarily louder than a loud archtop or a loud flattop, but they operate at a different part of the sonic spectrum that has way more "cut" to the ear. I have two Selmer style guitars, an oval hole and a D hole both made by Maurice Dupont of Cognac France. While they are pretty loud and cutting, I was once on an acoustic gig with another guitar player who was playing a resonator guitar. He was way louder than I was. The resonators may be the ultimate weapon of choice when amps are not allowed and you are playing single note lines.

Both of my Vintage Epiphone archtops are pretty loud and my Martin HD-28V is a cannon of a flattop. But My Dupont D hole is louder to my ear than any archtop that I have ever played.

How do they compare from a distance? Say a listener at 10 or 20 feet out in front?

Archtop acoustic guitars seem to sound best somewhere out in front and the player is not always in the best position to judge

[Greentone]

I concur. Like the violin family--especially the bass--the player isn't the best judge of apparent volume. Volume out in the room may be booming yet the player may not know it. By comparison, with a flattop the player senses the volume, which may or may not be carrying out in the room. Archtops really open up out there.