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May I ask the lucky people here who have Gibson LeGrands to measure your scale length for me?
I do know they are supposed to be 25-1/2", But I understand that can vary. And one more thing, are you happy with your LeGrand?
thanks, Joe D
I'm Sorry Jabbs and Archtop guy, I posted this in the wrong spot.
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06-24-2016 10:54 PM
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Joe,
If you are willing to wait, I would bet that Gibson would build you a LeGrand in any scale length you like. Talk to Steve at Wildwood Guitars. He seems to be pretty connected with Gibson and can probably get you what you want in a reasonable time frame. I am guessing what you really want is a Johnny Smith with a 50's (thick C) neck profile. (25 inch scale length, 1 3/4 nut full contact neck.)
All of the Gibson Johnny Smith guitars (1962-1984) will have a pretty shallow neck profile. That was the style in those days. In the 90's the thicker 50's neck profile came into style. But a custom LeGrand with the Johnny Smith specs and a 50's neck might be the perfect fit for you.
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SS, that's what I might do. I've reached out to Garrett. Let's see what he says. Yes if I could get a LeGrand to JS spec, I'd be very happy. Hopefully, TMZ can make it happen. If not I might take you up on the WW contact.
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
thanks bro.
JD
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Good luck Joe !!!!!!!
big
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Another idea is to have Heritage build that guitar. Jim Deurloo and Bill Paige are still there and can certainly match and, more likely exceed, the craftsmanship of the Gibson CS on a special order. They built Johnny Smiths for both Gibson and Heritage.
If I were to pursue that, I'd ask for a Golden Eagle with a 1 3/4" nut and 25" scale. You can get inlays to match the Heritage or the Gibson versions of the JS. You can specify the exact neck dimensions, too. And they will install any pup you want. All of this will be at a lower price than Gibson.
The problem with either a Gibson or Heritage custom build is the resale value.
Under new ownership, Heritage has elevated to a new level. The facility has been updated and the shop is more organized. Check out the website.
Guitars - Heritage Guitar
They just launched their first limited edition solid body. It's very retro. Even the pickups are made on an original Parsons Street roller. Check it out.
New Limited Edition H-157W - Heritage Guitars - Heritage Owners Club
Personally, I don't think I'm mature enough to order a truly custom guitar from Gibson or Heritage. I've gotten by on what's available. I lack the confidence of knowing what I'd want in two years. All I know is that I don't know.
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Hey guys,
I was just trying to qualify/disqualify the LeGrand.
If they are 25-3/8 and up, then I'd probably be better off living with my sold formed. At 25-5/16 it's right there.. IF it was the 24-3/4 it was supposed to be, it would be a no brainer. The scale on the LeGrand resale at TMZ right now is 25-3/4!!!
Scale length is important to me and will get more important to me in the future.
I guess when it's all said and done, I will end up with the right guitar.
Funny thing, maybe the very thing I am chasing after are 2 guitars I've already owned.. The Heritage Johnny Smith and the Gibson Herb Ellis.
I will supply the baseball bat, all somebody has to do is hit me with it next time I do something stupid again, which knowing me, will probably be real soon..
Joe D
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JD
Bull... you're just doing what we all do man, change partners again and again and again...
Big
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I do not think a Gibson LeGrand built to JS specs would be worth any less than any other LeGrand. And it might have more value (but probably not as much extra value as the extra cost of the custom order). Originally Posted by Marty Grass
The problem with any Heritage is the resale value. Most archtop players want a guitar that says Gibson on the headstock. I am guessing that the Gibson Super 400 headstock is one of the features that Joe wants. I cannot blame him for that, both for resale value reasons and also for looks.
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Joe, I have bought another example of guitars that I have sold. Sometimes we don't know what we have until it is gone. It is all part of the process. Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
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you need a real vintage Gibson Johnny Smith.
be patient and one will pop up sooner or later.
patience, patience, patience.....
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You are right SS. And MG, I greatly appreciate you trying to help. I am a Gibson guy. That fact by default should make me a Heritage guy, but for some unknown reason, I am not. I think the reason is, I am just f'ing ignorant.
The 25" scale is regarded by many of us here as pretty desireable. However, a Gibson branded one is such a unicorn. Oh well..
i think I have concluded that I will modify my Solid Formed a bit so it pleases my eyes. I've gotten used to the guitar and because of that, for me, it plays really well. The biggest mistake I've made is I gave up on it after I compared it acoustically to my D'Angelico Excel. What the hell was I thinking..
i need to stop searching for fancy arrows and learn to shoot my bows better.
Thanks guys.
Joe D
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That one you turned me on to at LaVonne would have the trick. I just couldn't see paying what they are asking and they won't come down. Problem is, if I had more money to spend I would have been set a while ago. I just can't afford to overpay. There are a bunch of beautiful Johnnys all over the place, just sitting. Originally Posted by wintermoon
Thanks WM.
JD
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Joe, if I compared all of my guitars to my DA Style A and my DA Style B, I would be down to two guitars, the DA Style B and the DA Style A.
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Marco, you are the human quote machine..
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Just a note about Peter Wagener at Lavonne Music in Savage,Mn. I've known Pete for almost 40 years now, and have never know him to overcharge anyone for any peice of equiptment. Maybe the market has fallen on archtops as of late and that's why they are now asking less $$ and are also not selling well. But 2 dealers I would never hesitate buying from are Lavonne Music(Peter Wagener) or Dave's Guitar(Dave Rogers) in LaCrosse, Wisconsin. Definitely 2 of the best people who know there wares as well as their customers.
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My 1998 LeGrand's scale is about 25-1/2, exactly measured on the G string which is the longest (tune-o-matic) it is 25,4
I'm happy with it, it's light and small (3 inch depth and shorter body than my L5), i use it for solo, duo and quiet trios but would not use it in a band with a loud drummer. I did change the pickup twice because i was not happy with the original BJB, am currently using a 12 pole Kent Armstrong.Last edited by JazzNote; 06-25-2016 at 02:26 PM.
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that makes two of us ....... Originally Posted by wintermoon
Last edited by JazzNote; 06-25-2016 at 02:27 PM.
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Originally Posted by jads57
And for me, I figure I only ever need to find one go-to person in an industry. That is probably the ( retired ) career salesman in me. I would hope people would buy from me once and then conclude they didn't have to shop around as much anymore. I'd be their go-to guy from them on.
And we have 2 stores like that ! And I can personally vouch for one - Dave's - without hesitation.
We should count our blessings !!
MHO .
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I'm just curious as I've never played any of them, but does a Guild Artist Award come anywhere near the vibe and sound of a Legrand/JS? I know the X700's were a shot at the L5's.
(see Image):
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If we were talking resell value on a new L5 vs a new dual humbucker Golden Eagle, I'd agree. But we're talking a LeGrand. Like L5's, I see lots of LeGrand's priced in the stratosphere...i.e., priced for display purposes only, for they aren't being sold anywhere near those prices, in spite of saying Gibson on the headstock. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
I've seen 3-4 LeGrand's sell the past 2 years for nearly $5k...I thought that was a reflection that the market is soft on LeGrand's?
My point is, just because it says Gibson on the headstock doesn't mean it's a popular guitar that will have automatic resell value. Performance wise, from what I've read here and elsewhere, I think an average acoustic GE will run circles around most and LeGrand...but I've never personally owned a LeGrand, and never will.
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I don't know a single person here that's owned each, at the same time. I've owned the AA. It's depth makes it an acoustic force to be reckoned with, especially if you can find one reasonably priced near $3500. They're out there if one looks. Good luck finding a LeGrand for even $5500. Originally Posted by helios
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I owned a '69 Gibson JS, and an 80's(?) Guild AA, not at the same time but back-to-back. From my best recollection: Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
JS: Wide but slender neck, very comfy profile, 25" scale. Lightly built guitar, lively, bright. Body depth slightly narrower than most, very comfy. Never really liked the smaller floater (on any guitar). Very prone to fb.
AA: "Fuller" profile neck, D-ish, also very comfy, neck felt more "solid," less vibrant. I *think* 25.5" scale(?) Heavier built guitar, darker, "firm" tone. Deeper body, less comfy under the right arm. Nice full pickup, would have like to have experimented with something else but never got around to it. Less prone to fb.
Overall, the JS was more of a lighter, brighter, more comfy acoustic-y arch top. The AA felt/sounded more like a full-size Electric L5CES, but with a floater.Last edited by Woody Sound; 06-25-2016 at 03:51 PM.
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This whole thread on JS, GE and LeGrand is quiet compelling. I own a dead mint Hutchins period LeGrand -and have had 2 golden eagles. In my opinion the LeGrand is more vibrant , balanced and just easier to play - and an overall superior pedigree........no disrespect to GE owners, the GE's are the best value on the market......without a doubt. I do not own a JS yet- but currently pursuing one right now thanks to my buddy Joe D and Jazznote. Stay tuned !!
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My comments about taking a serious haircut when selling either a highly customized Gibson or Heritage are true though. I don't know what Gibson would charge to change the scale and nut width on a LeGrand, but I'll bet the upcharge would be substantial. If I decided to sell it in a year, I might recover half of my investment. The same would be true of a Heritage. But the initial investment would be quite a bit lower for the Heritage.
On the other hand, if I knew that I was going to keep the guitar for a long time, the money aspect wouldn't matter that much. Truth be told, my heart rate goes up a bit when I see the Gibson headstock, too.
My limited experience with Guilds has been positive. The two Johnny Smiths I've owned were at least on the same level as the Gibson Johnny Smiths I've played over the years. That's not just my opinion. That's the opinion of three guys who used to build Gibson Johnny Smiths. In fact all three thought there was nicer trims (binding and inlays) on the Guilds. Of course if you need a wider nut and shorter scale, the Guild won't do.
My current Artist Award is in the same league as any other archtop I've owned. But I've definitely played some AAs that were not nearly as impressive. I suppose that variability is true with almost any brand.
Joe, good luck with the hunt. Remember that it's the journey, not the destination, that life's about.
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Marty,
Very valid points and I entirely agree. Especially the journey- which to me is the exciting and most enriching part of the process. It's the people, stories, history and connections that create lasting memories that we are all so blessed to enjoy.
I just love the valuable input and collective experience this forum offers.....it's priceless.
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Couple of entry level arch tops
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