Barney's guitar: please identify

**Groyniad** · 05-19-2016, 01:08 PM

you've said this thing before about barney playing 'sloppy' mr b.

shiiiit - that's some confidence you've got going on there!

i think the number one reason i love barney - who is (as the scarf shows) in certain ways the uncoolest cat you could imagine - is how loose his playing is - how informal - how laid back - lazy

because there's very strong structure to it all - effortless to hear - and sing back any given 4 bar chunk etc.

and that could make it all sound pretty damn uncool i think

if he didn't play with such fabulous slouch

**mr. beaumont** · 05-19-2016, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Groyniad

you've said this thing before about barney playing 'sloppy' mr b.

shiiiit - that's some confidence you've got going on there!

Now, now, I never said I was cleaner.

But seriously, listen to Barney burn, and then compare to say, Raney or Johnny Smith or somebody who was really "clean." You'll hear it.

I like your word better...loose...and not in a bad way. And Barney was stretching, really reaching for stuff...he was not playing it safe.

**Groyniad** · 05-19-2016, 01:55 PM

of course you didn't!

he is off the leash here, exploring - its a real find this video

i love his attitude - that's what is so infectious i think: as long as it feels right - it will work fine.

it could be called a pretty sloppy attitude i suppose - i dig the sound of it in his playing anyway

**customxke** · 05-19-2016, 02:13 PM

If he looks like he writes SciFi, then it's going to be good.

destinytot · 05-19-2016, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Now, now, I never said I was cleaner.

But seriously, listen to Barney burn, and then compare to say, Raney or Johnny Smith or somebody who was really "clean." You'll hear it.

I like your word better...loose...and not in a bad way. And Barney was stretching, really reaching for stuff...he was not playing it safe.

Love the looseness on display here. One of the comments says that's Ron Escheté watching and digging it.

**Tom Painter** · 05-19-2016, 04:33 PM

Did Bruce Foreman "inherit" Barney's 350?

I love that guitar.

**wintermoon** · 05-19-2016, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by destinytot

Love the looseness on display here. One of the comments says that's Ron Escheté watching and digging it.

Barney's quoting all sorts of tunes here, Samba De Orfeu, I Let A Song Go Out Of My Heart, can't remember the Charlie Parker tune he quotes during fours.

destinytot · 05-19-2016, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by wintermoon

Barney's quoting all sorts of tunes here, Samba De Orfeu, I Let A Song Go Out Of My Heart, can't remember the Charlie Parker tune he quotes during fours.

Moose the Mooch?

**wintermoon** · 05-19-2016, 05:15 PM

^

ding, ding, ding!

destinytot · 05-19-2016, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by wintermoon

^

ding, ding, ding!

Do I win five pounds?

**Klatu** · 05-19-2016, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Now, now, I never said I was cleaner.

But seriously, listen to Barney burn, and then compare to say, Raney or Johnny Smith or somebody who was really "clean." You'll hear it.

I like your word better...loose...and not in a bad way. And Barney was stretching, really reaching for stuff...he was not playing it safe.

Here's an example of Barney stepping on the gas pedal for better or worse.

**Doctor Jeff** · 05-19-2016, 07:03 PM

I think I see smoke coming from the fretboards after that...

What a stupid song. Kudos to Barney and Herb for tearing the hell out of it.

Herb and Barney are awesome--my main role models, along with Kenny and Joe.

**Archie** · 05-19-2016, 07:23 PM

I gotta say, Barney's solo line playing seems to literally nose dive off a cliff after the 60'S

He was good on the poll winners and great on one mint Julip but after that it became like listening to a later Tal Farlow.

I know Im treading on sacred ground but hear me out.

Barney and Tal were both harmonic monsters, no doubt. But both players single line playing became almost unlistenable as they got older.

Tal and Barney are two of the best guitar players of all time, I would say Barney's harmonic taste was better but between them, there wasn't a chord you couldn't play. That guitar to them was an open book (in harmonic terms), that had been thoroughly well read.

**neatomic** · 05-19-2016, 07:39 PM

one of barneys wildest recordings..on fire...live (his first) trio date..live at trendy pop pj's club in LA..1965..supposedly he funded it..was real important to him...maybe thinkin he was going to dent the pop market...ie trini lopez live at pjs, etc

here's interesting overview/details

452 ? Barney Kessel ? On Fire - AmbientExotica.com ? Music Reviews of Ambient, Vaporwave & Tiki Exotica Albums

cheers

**Archie** · 05-19-2016, 07:49 PM

Yes One Mint Julip, I just mentioned that. One of my fav all time recordings of his, as well as Jordu.

**Durban** · 06-03-2016, 06:02 AM

Barneys Ibanez guitar, Mezzo Archive 1979 video, not certain what it is.

This quote about it, The Gibson Barney Kessel Pages (part 6)

this looks like an Ibanez Gb20 with tailpiece. The neck has Dots, no GB blockish inlays perhaps Barney wanted dots like his Gibson 350

the picture DOES NOT match the the Mezzo video 79 video

In the actual video the pickup looks like it may be Super 58 (impossible to tell) Also INTERESTING is postion, it is not up next to the neck, one thing is certain the tone is fantastic and his playing as well.

So there you go about pup placement total BS it the right hands its fine,

**oldane** · 06-03-2016, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by Durban

In the actual video the pickup looks like it may be Super 58 (impossible to tell) Also INTERESTING is postion, it is not up next to the neck, one thing is certain the tone is fantastic and his playing as well.

So there you go about pup placement total BS it the right hands its fine,

I don't think anybody has said that a guitar only can sound good with the PU is close to the neck. Countless guitarists sound great with say an ES 175 where the neck PU is closer to the bridge than on say an L4. What has been said is that the tone differs, depending on the PU position. On a 2 PU guitar, the bridge PU sounds quite different from the neck PU, even when the same PU is used in both places. In the early-mid 1940s, Kessel used one of those shortlived Gibsons with the PU placed more like a bridge PU, and his sound was not at all as rich as when he used a guitar with a neck PU. The sound difference is due to the difference in position. The sound difference between various positions of a neck PU is much less, but it is there. What to prefer is entirely a question of personal taste - and besides a lot can of course be done with careful picking technique and appropiate EQ settings.

However, to conclude that any talk of tone difference due to PU placement is "total BS" is stretching it too far.

**fritz jones** · 06-03-2016, 06:32 AM

Maybe they got focal dystonia.

**oldane** · 06-03-2016, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Tom Painter

Did Bruce Foreman "inherit" Barney's 350?

According to articles and pictures on the web, it's in his possession.

Originally Posted by destinytot

Moose the Mooch?

Yes, "Moose the Mooche". Named after Parkers "connection" in LA in 1946 who ran his business from his wheelchair on the street corner. He caused legal headaches after Parkers death because he could present a document signed in 1946 by Parker where Parker gave Moose the Mooche the rights to his tunes. Parker no doubt signed it at a time when he was badly strung out (which he often was in LA where smack at that time was not as readily available as in NY). According to the accompagning letter from Moose the Mooche he [MtM] was in St. Quentin "due to misfortune" when he claimed the rights to the songs.