Truss rod entirely relaxed, but neck still straight

**DonEsteban** · 05-01-2016, 04:14 PM

I bought this nice Ibanez AS93 second hand in almost like new condition.

Just one tiny thing... when I press down strings at first and last fret I get 0,1 mm at the 8th fret, a bit low.

So I loosen the truss rod to the max (only maybe half a turn of the Allen key) but the neck isn't moving a bit.

It's ok, I can have ultra low action that way, still it kind of worries me.

What I did now is tuning it a whole tone up (instead of putting on strings with higher gauge, these are brand new) and I plan to let it "settle" a day or two.

Any thoughts?

**RonD** · 05-01-2016, 06:03 PM

I'm hoping the tech guys will chime in.
I have a guitar with a similar problem.

**neatomic** · 05-01-2016, 06:26 PM

barring any serious yet unlikely problems like a broken trussrod, let it settle a day or two..often time, temp and humidity changes affect a trussrod as much as actual adjustments...so give it time...with a loosened trussrod the string tension will find its own level...if its still too flat you could try heavier strings

i would not tune it up a whole step though..leave it be

these days, machine construction accuracy on necks and frets allows guitars with almost dead flat necks to play with proper intonation and without fret buzzing

keep us posted

cheers

**Matt Cushman** · 05-01-2016, 06:46 PM

It is more than likely that string tension will pull the neck into relief. If string tension is not enough to pull the neck into the desired amount of relief there is a fairly easy fix but it requires some fret work. You can induce some backbow to the neck with the truss rod then level and crown the frets. After this you can ease off the truss rod and have some relief with some tension remaining on the truss rod. Hopefully you will not have to do this.

**icr** · 05-01-2016, 07:06 PM

Has the guitar been re-fretted? Sometimes pounding or pressing the frets in place opens up each fret gap just the smallest amount. It can add up to a little back bow.

**fritz jones** · 05-01-2016, 08:13 PM

raise the action

**neatomic** · 05-01-2016, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by fritz jones

raise the action

common misnomer

action ie bridge height and neck relief are two distinct issues...a good playing guitar is a synthesis of its components and their adjustments

cheers

**rabbit** · 05-02-2016, 12:46 PM

Humidification may be in order. It takes some time but I've had actions & necks improve
with consistent humidification, instrument in the case, from INSIDE of the chamber of the guitar.

A piece or pieces of sponge in a small plastic bag with holes in one side , the "up" side,
so no water directly touches the wood inserted thru the "F" hole.
A length of string can secure this assembly from loss inside the chamber and ease retrieval.

Don't let it dry out completely and don't hesitate to play it in the meantime then see if you've got a change
after a month or two. If you take a fiddle in for any kind of extensive repair that has been not
completely humidified you are likely making an error anyway.

Good luck & congratulations on a new guitar.

**Marty Grass** · 05-02-2016, 01:39 PM

I can tell you how that problem is address around where I am, and I've seen it work well.

Loosen the truss rod nut completely and put some heavy strings on it. Let it settle for a few weeks at least.

I'd continue with the heavy strings and a slightly high action (bowing) for as long as I could comfortably put up with it, maybe a few months more.

That takes care of the issue usually. Otherwise fret leveling or even replaning the neck may be needed if/when the guitar is not playable.

**m_d** · 05-02-2016, 03:44 PM

Take it to a trusted tech. I just had a similar issue with an Artcore. The tech fixed it, said it had to do with the fact that Ibanez uses a dual action truss rod which has a middle, loose point where it feels like the rod isn't doing anything. I wasn't able to sort it out by myself, and still probably couldn't.

**Archie** · 05-02-2016, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by m_d

Take it to a trusted tech. I just had a similar issue with an Artcore. The tech fixed it, said it had to do with the fact that Ibanez uses a dual action truss rod which has a middle, loose point where it feels like the rod isn't doing anything. I wasn't able to sort it out by myself, and still probably couldn't.

Seems like problem solved.

**LtKojak** · 05-03-2016, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by DonEsteban

I press down strings at first and last fret I get 0,1 mm at the 8th fret, a bit low.
Any thoughts?

First, you should press the 14th fret and not the last, to more accurately measure the relief, but even if it is that, I wouldn't consider it as "low" by any means.

HTH,

**DonEsteban** · 05-03-2016, 06:56 AM

m_d you made my day!

I didn't even know that there is such a thing like a double action truss rod. So it turns out, it was in the exact middle position, hence the neck being dead straight as can be.

Initially I didn't dare to go even further to the left (seen from top) because of the drag, but a simple 1/4 turn and the neck is in perfect 0.3 mm relief...

A big THANK YOU to you and all other contributors!

**m_d** · 05-03-2016, 07:26 AM

Happy I could help! I didn't know about those dual trussrods either, and congratulations on doing it yourself because I couldn't. Enjoy your Ibanez, they are really well made!

**Marty Grass** · 05-03-2016, 08:13 AM

The dual TR does change everything. I'm a big fan of them. Unfortunately they aren't fully mainstream in the archtop world.

**Tom Karol** · 05-03-2016, 06:29 PM

My Godin Montreal Premiere has a dual action truss rod which, as m_d said, "...has a middle loose point where it feels like the rod isn't doing anything." I move it 1/8 turn in either direction depending on the climate conditions; sometimes I just leave it in the middle. Nice!

**RonD** · 05-03-2016, 09:46 PM

My Greco with the aforementioned issue, does not have a dual action.
A recent refret was performed.
It's currently sitting, strung with 12-56 strings, truss rod disengaged.
Now, I wait...

**Matt Cushman** · 05-04-2016, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by RonD

My Greco with the aforementioned issue, does not have a dual action.
A recent refret was performed.
It's currently sitting, strung with 12-56 strings, truss rod disengaged.
Now, I wait...

When you had the refret done the person who did it should have gone through the procedure that I described in post # 4. When a neck will not pull into relief, a little relief needs to be created by leveling the frets while the neck is forced into a slight backbow with the truss rod. Then when the truss rod is slackened there will be sufficient relief to get a proper set up. I always fret or refret a neck using this method and have always had good results.