Experience with L-5C from 1980s?

[cmajor9]

There is a locally available L-5C (as in acoustic L-5 with a cutaway) from the early '80s. I've never seen an acoustic L-5 from this time period. The guitar looks to be in very good shape in photos, with no damage or repairs other than normal wear. I'm arranging to meet the owner and try it out.

Has anyone played an acoustic L-5 from this era? Any comments, or particular issues to look for?

[lawson-stone]

If I recall there is actually a gap in production of L5s from Gibson in the 1980's. Several years at least where no official records exist indicating sales, though guitars are around hailing from that era. Might be interesting to follow up, but maybe a reason to be more careful?

[Stringswinger]

I have played a mid 70's L-5C that was fantastic. I regret not buying it. It had the volume of a 40's archtop with a smooth tone and a superb neck.

Make sure that the neck is straight and that there is some adjustment left on the bridge. Check carefully for cracks and binding separation.

Good luck!

[Greentone]

Make sure the truss rod works, too. If there isn't adjustment left on the bridge, it is neck reset time. Not a deal breaker, but make sure you have a guy and can get some wiggle room in the price.

[Archie]

Gibson Issues:

Neck Ramping at body (very common)

Neck warping or s'ing (very common)

Truss Rod maxed out! Works but is already fully engaged offering you no room to tighten if needed (Very common)

Truss rod doesn't work period (not very common but obviously worth checking out)

Lacquer cracking (very common)

Cracks in wood (Common)

Tuner not working properly (common)

Kerfed Bracing? (doubt it but check it out just in case)

Cracked binding on fretboard (very common)


Just some of the joys of buying a second hand Gibson

[JazzNote]

Neck Ramping at body (very common)

Kerfed Bracing? (doubt it but check it out just in case)

Unfortunately my english is not good enough to translate the above and i can't find the meaning in any online translator. Can someone explain?

Thanks!

[Bluedawg]

I have an '85 175D and an 88 L4CES .... both a great sounding guitars that play great

The only issue I know of is the lacquer cracking all over the back and sides ... but almost none on the tops

The lacquer cracking wasn't there when I bought them new ...but I don't remember exactly when it started

Mine were both made in Nashville and I assume they were still trying to adjust their finishes to the Nashville climate

If before '85 it was probably made in Kalamazoo

[Archie]

Unfortunately my english is not good enough to translate the above and i can't find the meaning in any online translator. Can someone explain?

Thanks!

The braces are cut to make them quicker to fit. This means they have no strength and the top sinks. Happening right now to probably 60% of Gibson hollow-bodies from the 50's to the 80's?

You know, the golden years ;-)

[Franz 1997]

Gibson Issues:

Neck Ramping at body (very common)

Neck warping or s'ing (very common)

Truss Rod maxed out! Works but is already fully engaged offering you no room to tighten if needed (Very common)

Truss rod doesn't work period (not very common but obviously worth checking out)

Lacquer cracking (very common)

Cracks in wood (Common)

Tuner not working properly (common)

Kerfed Bracing? (doubt it but check it out just in case)

Cracked binding on fretboard (very common)


Just some of the joys of buying a second hand Gibson

I know, I know. It's just astonishing how people keep buying them..

[Bluedawg]

I know, I know. It's just astonishing how people keep buying them..

They hold their value and they still sound and play great

Any guitar can have problems as it ages

The cracked lacquer on my Gibbies doesn't bother me ... other than the possible impact on resale value

[wintermoon]

Gibson haters are gonna hate.
How does one come up w/ "This means they have no strength and the top sinks. Happening right now to probably 60% of Gibson hollow-bodies from the 50's to the 80's? "

I've had countless Gibson archtops from the 20's--90's and only one, count 'em one, had any top sink and it was a prewar ES-150 w/that heavy Christian pickup hanging from the top.

[Woody Sound]

The braces are cut to make them quicker to fit. This means they have no strength and the top sinks. Happening right now to probably 60% of Gibson hollow-bodies from the 50's to the 80's?

60%..........how did you arrive at that number?

[JazzNote]

The braces are cut to make them quicker to fit. This means they have no strength and the top sinks. Happening right now to probably 60% of Gibson hollow-bodies from the 50's to the 80's?

You know, the golden years ;-)

Thanks ArchtopHeaven, and what is Neck Ramping at body?

[Franz 1997]

They hold their value and they still sound and play great

Any guitar can have problems as it ages

The cracked lacquer on my Gibbies doesn't bother me ... other than the possible impact on resale value

I should stress that my comment was intended ironically!

[Bluedawg]

I should stress that my comment was intended ironically!

We need one of those "sarcasm" smilies like they have at TGP

[Archie]

Jazznote Ramping is when the finger board extension (the bit of neck the hangs over the body) turns up towards the strings, making you unable to get low action.
It can be easily fixed by having the frets levelled at the point when the fingerboard is raised but at worst, you will have to get the entire neck planed flat!

[Archie]

Wasn't hating guys, just drawing up a list for the OP. As a seasoned buyer of Gibson guitars, these are the most common issues. I must admit, when written in list form, it does read like a car crash but that wasn't my intention.

And listen if I cant poke a bit of fun at a guitar company that used kerfed braces, then what can I make fun off? Lots of reason to still buy a Gibson, nothing quite sounds like one for the most part and they are beautiful guitars.

But ok... i'll take the slap on the wrist for the second post

[eblydian]

This thread has gone off topic already, so I'll ask the million dollar question: how can someone spot a second-hand lemon? What are the things to look at when inspecting a guitar?

I never owned a Gibson guitar but I'd like to buy an ES-175 sometime in the future. These comment are pretty scary though.

[Franz 1997]

This thread has gone off topic already, so I'll ask the million dollar question: how can someone spot a second-hand lemon? What are the things to look at when inspecting a guitar?

I never owned a Gibson guitar but I'd like to buy an ES-175 sometime in the future. These comment are pretty scary though.

ArchtopHeaven has given a list of some things to watch out for, although IMO they aren't as common as he implies, and these issues can appear on any old guitar, and new ones too, so they aren't unique to Gibson, or Gibsons made in the 70s. From his list, some of them, e.g. lacquer cracking, are cosmetic, and most of the issues are fixable relatively easily, or are things that owners learn to live with.

He has a point about the 2 truss rod issues, they are sometimes found on older Gibsons, and are the most serious (and expensive) issues, because they affect the guitar's playability. I agree that it's important either to check yourself that the truss rod is still adjustable, to get a luthier to do it before buying, or to negotiate a return agreement in case of a truss rod issue. I always take a truss rod wrench when buying any gibson ( or any other guitar) , and have found a couple of cases where the rod wasn't adjustable, including a 90s L5CES. I haven't found this issue with any 70s Gibson, but you still should check, or get it checked before buying. I have found this issue on new Gibsons and Heritages too, so it's not just about old guitars.

If you don't know how to check a truss rod, you are probably safer taking the other options, as it's possible you could damage a good truss rod through enthusiastic over-tightening. Get a luthier to do it, or negotiate a return.

The other issue he mentions is kerfed bracing, which can lead to a collapsed top ( but usually doesn't). This is serious but more easily fixable by a luthier, and you can check yourself by looking to see if the shape of the top looks distorted or unusually low under the bridge.

Maybe the best advice is, if you're not familiar with these issues on older guitars, either get it checked by a luthier before buying or negotiate a return agreement in the case of truss rod or bracing issues. The other things you can check yourself, including looking down the line of the neck and looking for a hump ( 'ramping') where the neck joins the body.

Bear in mind that most old guitars have at least one of these issues and can still be a good buy; don't let lacquer cracking or the odd binding crack put you off. Cracks ( apart from neck cracks) are usually not serious. Neck cracks and neck repairs often are, and do seriously affect resale value. Pickup problems, including electrics not working, are easily and cheaply fixed. It's all about knowing which issues are very serious, which ones are fixable at low cost and which are simply cosmetic.

[cmajor9]

Well, look what I started...

Thanks to all who replied with useful suggestions and information. Unfortunately when I got back with the seller, the guitar was gone.

[Archie]

Well, look what I started...

Thanks to all who replied with useful suggestions and information. Unfortunately when I got back with the seller, the guitar was gone.

Oh dear lol

[Franz 1997]

Well, look what I started...

Thanks to all who replied with useful suggestions and information. Unfortunately when I got back with the seller, the guitar was gone.

Well maybe you can use the info next time?

[JazzNote]

The braces are cut to make them quicker to fit. This means they have no strength and the top sinks. Happening right now to probably 60% of Gibson hollow-bodies from the 50's to the 80's?

You know, the golden years ;-)

I have just checked on my solid carved gibbies:
1953 L7C/ 1970 L5CES / 1998 LeGrand / 2003 L5CES / 2014 Lee Ritenour Signature

None of them has kerfed bracing, all regular

[wintermoon]

I have just checked on my solid carved gibbies:
1953 L7C/ 1970 L5CES / 1998 LeGrand / 2003 L5CES / 2014 Lee Ritenour Signature

None of them has kerfed bracing, all regular

correct, these high end carved top Gibsons have solid braces. lower models like the 175 are kerfed.

[icr]

Nothing wrong with kerfed braces if they are not cracked: 1937 guitar with kerfed braces has no issues.


Not my repair, but from this site showing a non-kerfed brace that is loose. Scott's Guitar Blog: Loose braces on Gibson ES-175