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Since we're questioning kemper, I figure we should question all electric guitars other than gibson and fender...
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04-13-2016 07:26 PM
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it's been one big long rip off since pyhtagoras
haha
cheers
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So Pythagoras invented the pedal steel? I think the Archtop luthiers are in the clear
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Ha!
Good thread. The comparison is very fair.
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All traditional classical guitars are almost identical!
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as long as its american.
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The question is, is listening to Stairway to Heaven ethical?
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not if u've heard spirit
rip-randy california!
hah
cheers
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So chord progressions are intellectual property too? Oh crap!
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WOW! Whats next on this forum? Whats your favorite color? I just dont get it. Seriously ,someone explain this to me. Bob
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lake placid blue
Originally Posted by Top of the Arch!
everything comes down to aesthetics..the color of our car, bathroom walls, our shoelaces, girlfriends hair..why the shocked routine..we live in a world of choices..why ignore it..
everything counts
or doesn't
cheers
ps- this was jz's clever yet sarcastic response thread to the kemper thread..not just pulled out of tha airLast edited by neatomic; 04-13-2016 at 11:07 PM. Reason: ps-
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Blue ... no yellow .... aaaaarrrrrrrrrggggghhhhhh Originally Posted by Top of the Arch!
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Sure they are. They are competitive products, not parasitic products like the Kemper PFA.
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04-14-2016, 03:16 AM #14dortmundjazzguitar Guest
kemper turns hardware into a digital product. that means that they can produce an infinite amount of amps at zero additional cost. once an amp has been profiled it becomes a public good *forever*.
who knows what will be possible 10 years from now. probably individual sounds will have been profiled by then, so your strat will sound exactly like wes at the half note, with thunk and everything.
personally i'm not interested in this developement. kemper just sells the illusion of real things.
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OK, I get it now! : ) I must have missed the kemper post. Carry on. !! Bob
Originally Posted by neatomic
lake placid blue
everything comes down to aesthetics..the color of our car, bathroom walls, our shoelaces, girlfriends hair..why the shocked routine..we live in a world of choices..why ignore it..
everything counts
or doesn't
cheers
ps- this was jz's clever yet sarcastic response thread to the kemper thread..not just pulled out of tha air
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Benedetto wrote a book on how to accurately copy his guitars, so I think Eastman and the other Benedetto style builders are in the clear. As far as the others, such as Joyo, not so much.
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The question "Is (product name) ethical" doesn't have an answer because it's too vague and doesn't identify the ethical issue(s).
A better question might be something like:
Is it to ethical market a product that incorporates features of another product, as long as those features are not covered by trademarks, patents or copyrights, and as long as there has been no theft of trade secrets (e.g., stealing proprietary documents).
I think the answer to this question is yes. If the products listed in the OP meet these constraints I don't see any ethical issues.
Are there any that don't meet these constraints?
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How would you characterize the difference between "competitive" and "parasitic" products? I'm genuinely curious. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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More to the point,
**Is it Ethical to be Ethical**?
...the existential question!
My book will be out late summer followed by a series of lectures in the fall at Harvard & Yale ...
.......immediately followed by Pepe's pizza afterwards on Wooster street in "Little Italy" New Haven which will then be followed up with La Sfogliatella, (Lobstertail) pastries (in case the lectures suck...!)
now
Last edited by jazzimprov; 04-14-2016 at 02:49 PM.
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Just listened to Spirit--I used to listen to them a bit back in college, great stoner music, never heard this song though.
There is definitely a similar chord progression with the main melody, but it doesn't resolve the same way. There are several other sections to the Led Zep song not represented in the Spirit song, not the least of which is the power chord/solo end section.
I have to think Page heard this and "borrowed" from it, but to say it's a direct copy or a steal is just flat-out wrong IMO. I can think of a dozen similar riffs that are borrowed from well-known sources. The entire careers of Lenny Kravitz and the Black Crowes, among many others, are based on borrowed riffs.
I am still steamed about the George Harrison verdict too. "He's So Fine" ain't "My Sweet Lord".
Lesser known is the Come Together lawsuit--from Wikipedia:
In 1973, "Come Together" was the subject of a lawsuit brought against Lennon by Big Seven Music Corp. (owned by Morris Levy) who was the publisher of Chuck Berry's "You Can't Catch Me". Levy contended that it sounded similar musically to Berry's original and shared some lyrics (Lennon sang "Here come ol' flattop, he come groovin' up slowly" and Berry's had sung "Here come a flattop, he was movin' up with me"). Before recording, Lennon and McCartney deliberately slowed the song down and added a heavy bass riff in order to make the song more original. After settling out of court, Lennon promised to record three other songs owned by Levy. A primitive version of "Ya Ya" with Lennon and his son Julian was released on the album Walls and Bridges in 1974. "You Can't Catch Me" and another version of "Ya Ya" were released on Lennon's 1975 album Rock 'n' Roll, but the third, "Angel Baby", remained unreleased until after Lennon's death. Levy again sued Lennon for breach of contract, and was eventually awarded $6,795. Lennon countersued after Levy released an album of Lennon material using tapes that were in his possession and was eventually awarded $84,912.96. The album was called Roots.
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Oh, back OT, if I understand correctly the issue with guitars as evidenced by the Gibson-Japanese lawsuits of the 70's hinged on logos and headstock design, not actual guitar design per se.
As far as I know it's legal to build and sell a copy of any guitar as long as you don't fool the customer into thinking they're getting the original with the logo or an important design element like the headstock. Others can chime in if they're more knowledgeable.
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1. It is really ridiculous. Whenever one's to use descending bass line over static chord, or some quasi baroque lines on cymbal, STOP, first send some money to Taurus. No way! That kind of precedent can not stand. Originally Posted by abelljo
2. On the other hand, I'm 99% sure Zeppelin nicked it straight from this Spirit song. Leaving reasonable doubt.
I would like to see how it will end. IMO, It should be sentenced Zeppelin to pay Taurus some money, but without Taurus getting any "abstract" copyright.
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From Wiki entry on Spirit:
The band capitalized on the success of their first album with another single, "I Got a Line on You". Released in November 1968, a month before their second album, The Family That Plays Together, it became their biggest hit single, reaching No. 25 on the charts (#28 in Canada). The album matched its success, reaching No. 22. In December, they appeared at the Denver Auditorium with support band Led Zeppelin, who soon after incorporated parts of Spirit's song "Fresh Garbage" in an extended medley during their early 1969 concerts. Spirit also appeared with Led Zeppelin at two outdoor music festivals in July 1969. Jimmy Page's use of a theremin has been attributed to his seeing Randy California use one that he had mounted to his amplifier; and Guitar World magazine stated "California's most enduring legacy may well be the fingerpicked acoustic theme of the song 'Taurus', which Jimmy Page lifted virtually note for note for the introduction to 'Stairway to Heaven'." Page may have reworked a riff from "Taurus" while composing "Stairway to Heaven"; The Independent remarked upon the similarity in 1997. In 2014, Mark Andes, and a trust acting on behalf of Randy California, filed a copyright infringement suit against Led Zeppelin in an attempt to obtain a writing credit for "Stairway to Heaven". Page denies copying "Taurus".
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Gibson and Fender have trademarked the headstock shape and logo. Japanese lawsuit guitars had copied Gibson's headstock shape and the script of the Gibson logo. Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
IIRC Fender has not trademarked the shape of their bodies which is why we see so many Strat/Tele copies and parts casters. Gibson has trademarked the Les Paul body shape and won a trademark lawsuit against PRS over the PRS Singlecut.
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companies like nash get away with it by making their guitars from licensed parts such as all-parts. For a while, nash didn't use a headstock logo and folks would purchase fender logos off ebay and put them on their nash guitars. Nash guitars are artificially aged by beating them with chains, dragging them from pickup trucks and burning them with cigarettes. Surprisingly, I prefer a nash to an actual fender. It seems that the thinner finishes and after market parts sound more like a vintage fender than what fender makes.
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