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It seems that GE has round wounds in that video. I would go for flatwounds to get a darker sound.
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06-28-2016 04:16 AM
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A perfect GE sound is here, even with the rounds it still sounds great:
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Good point. Setup, playing style, EQ settings should obscure/level out whatever differencies there are in amplified sound of the two instruments.
Originally Posted by Epistrophy
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I could also try a bit wider nut on my GE. About 2-2,5mm. There's still some space on the fingerboard for more string spacing. I think a wider nut could make the neck feel wider and bigger at the same time. I find the standard 1 11/16 nut width in general more narrow than I prefer. I would go for a bit wider nut. Also my ES 165 has narrower nut than I prefer, so I surely change it as well to a wider one, I don't find it so comfortable either, although the neck profile is that 1950s fat profile I like. It already feels different when the nut is only 2mm or 2,5mm wider from high E to low E. If the neck still feels narrow after changing the wider nut into my GE, then I don't know what to do anymore. But I still believe that nut with wider string spacing will help a lot, there wouldn't be any needs of anything else in that guitar.
Last edited by Epistrophy; 07-04-2016 at 04:37 PM.
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Epistrophy, what you can do is to have the nut slots cut with the bass E string moved 1mm from the edge of the fretboard. This frees up about 2mm of fretboard width to allow greater string spacing. Hardly anyone bends the bass E and it is taut enough not to slip off the fretboard. It will look a little odd but that is reversible, of course, so nothing major.
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Good idea! I rather do small changes first before moving to bigger.
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Frans Elferink built a wider bridge into my GE. It helped a bit. Before that the string spacing used to be even more narrow than in some Gibsons from 60s with that thin neck profile. When going towards the nut, the strings are more close to each other. Wider nut will surely help.
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I just changed lighter strings to my GE. From 13s to 12s. Let's see if my wrist pain is gone after that.
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This is how a Golden Eagle is supposed to sound. Originally Posted by Epistrophy
Greg in Germany is a superb player--a real pro. All his guitars, IMO, tend to have a similar sound though because he puts them through the same pedal treatment then into his Fender amp with plenty of reverb. It's not an unappealing sound, but it is a fairly processed sound. When evaluating guitars I'm not too sure that this is the way to go. If, OTOH, the object is to showcase Greg's talents, then I think he has a winning formula.
No disrespect intended, here, just the observation that Greg's pedals tend to homogenize the sound of the different guitars to some extent.
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agree with above
acoustic helps the most, then, no effects to get a clear definition of the tone of the instrument.
...not interested in the player at this point just the tone although the player does help define the sound....
..but the real tone gets buried in the effects.....
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With semi-hollows and solid bodies, effects are ok. But with archtops like that, some people find it even as a sacrilege, to use effects when playing those type of guitars, but for me it's fine, although I am more into the natural sound of an acoustic archtop.
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Nice Japanese video production featuring a Heritage Golden Eagle w/a KA 12 pole floater
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That's a nice one!
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Going back to this now as the original poster, after all these years, partly because of nostalgic reasons. It's been a while and now I have been a Gibson JS owner since 2016. It has been a great guitar. It's quite old, however, and fragile. It turned 55 last year. It needs constant care: protection and humidification.
I still miss my old Golden Eagle from 1997 every now and then, and it was not a disappointment. It really was a great guitar. (You can see some pics of my old GE, some pics that I posted earlier some years ago in this thread.) I just did not find the neck suitable, but that's about it. As for all the other things it was a perfect guitar. Acoustically the guitar was a bit trebly, especially with 12s, so 13 and 17 really helped to tame the trebly sound from the treble strings. Bass strings were tight, so to speak, they did cut well in a band setting.
I did not share any information about a guitar comparison I did, I could not get any closer in comparing a LeGrand and a Golden Eagle. In 2016 I got a chance to compare my 1997 GE with a Gibson Johnny Smith that one of my friend owned before I got mine. I think comparing a Gibson JS to a Golden Eagle is the closest thing next to an actual LeGrand. LeGrand has longer scale, and the neck is floating. In terms of comparing a GJS to my GE was tighter, it had more punch. I played both through my friend's Gibson GA-50T amp. GJS had more complexity in it, it was more gentle soundwise. It was the best guitar comparison I've ever done, and my GE was strung with JS113 flats, my friend's JS was strung with JS111 flats. The 25,5 scale of GE made everything sound more punchy and tight. It was quite aggressive sound. But I loved the sound. I have to say that I liked it a bit more even than the JS. But JS felt better to my hands, so I ended up selling my GE and I got a JS. GE was more robust in terms of construction compared to a vintage GJS. I think a Gibson LeGrand is also less robust than an average GE.
The prices have gone up in terms of Gibson and Heritage carved archtops, Heritages GEs starting from 6k and up, Gibsons being 9k on average. I think for an average player, a decent laminate would do the job as well. Or some other more affordable models other than Gibson or Heritage. I see no going back to the days when it was possible to get a decent Heritage for 3,5k or a Gibson being 6,5k.
Gibson Johnny Smith, LeGrand or Heritage Golden Eagle are dream come true guitars for many, but there are other ones as well, more affordable ones.Last edited by Epistrophy; 10-31-2023 at 02:54 PM.
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I was glad to see this thread woken up. I have a GE and often hear them compared to JS or Legrand so I thought Id share this, mine is a '97 floater like epistrophy. Ive had it about 3 yrs. When I first got it I was not thinking of playing it acoustically. The stock floater seemed low output and kind of dull. After a nice consultation with Kent Armstrong who had upgraded many GE's pickups we decided to put one of his cut single coils which he said he had not done on a GE before. I sent him the whole pickguard pickup assembly and he put the pickup in the stock pickup enclosure. When I got it back I was blown away, it was set up with Thom 13 flats (low action) and as far as I was concerned I would never want for another guitar. The acoustic sound was pleasant but not loud and generally unremarkable but fine for practice. Over time and thanks (i think) to this forum I began to wonder what it might sound like with rounds and as it was time for a string change I decided to experiment. Starting with a 12 set I moved up to 14-56 and was really surprised, acoustic volume increased and it literally sang acoustically but still wasnt what I would consider a great acoustic archtop even though the plugged in sound was stunning. Again after following the forum I decided to try a bronze 80/20 set 14-56 martin SP...holy shit... I was smitten but it got better. I was also following the pick thread and having never played bronzes I thought a pick change in order. To cut to the chase I now play the guitar acoustically most of the time, It has great acoustic volume amazing tone and plugged in its breathtaking. Ive had the guitar about 3yrs now and it has been several different guitars in that time the latest I would have never expected because again the forum consensus has been that they are not great acoustically. Point is when we discuss guitars everything thats attached to it (including your fingers) makes a huge difference which I would have never known without this experiment. Getting to hear from the forum about the comparisons with other guitars is really invaluable!
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Old thread but appropriate now given I have a 2001 Legrand and a 2003 L5c that was custom made to be an acoustic first in sound. They both have a BJB floater. Of the 2 guitars they are a bit different but actually close in sound in some sense. The Legrand I have is as QAman said his was, mine has a very nice deep bass that is resonate and warm. It is warmer in that respect than the L5c. The L5c cuts a bit more on the treble end and I think is louder. Both nice guitars take your pick. They both sound better than any GJS I have owed and I had 3 during the years. They also far exceed the 2 Guild AA I had in acoustic sound.
Finally I have a 2001 Heritage Johnny Smith Rose. It has more power and volume than probably the Legrand and possibly more than the L5c. I cannot be sure just playing them myself. The Heritage JS I have stands with each of those guitars. Although it is brighter than the Legrand for sure. Depends on the day any work.
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I think I will never get a chance to play a LeGrand, since they are rare instruments. And I don’t really see a reason to pay to test one during a visitation to a private person in another country, taking all the travel costs into an account. Nor I will probably ever get a chance to compare my JS with my old GE, since I lost the contact information of the person who bought it. I don’t even remember the name of the buyer. I am however able to compare my friend’s JS with mine. But that’s fine. I have tried some other great guitars in guitar stores, and some of the guitars I tested were owned by fellow musicians who attended to the same jam seasons with me in the past. I won’t probably miss much by being not able to play a LeGrand in my lifetime. I might be lucky to play a LeGrand one day, hopefully with a wooden bridge, since I dislike a metal bridge in those type of guitars. Thank you for waking up this thread with your recent messages! Those were interesting messages, good ones from both of you.
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I have one such guitar in the same class—the Hofner Chancellor—for sale here on this very forum for well, well, well under what these above guitars demand. Originally Posted by Epistrophy
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I have a new Heritage Standard Eagle Classic and I'm in love with it. I even like it more than the Gibson L5CES I used to own. The tone is so rich throughout the tonal spectrum, bottom end to top end. It's very balanced. The neck is perfect for my application. Construction and craftsmanship are both top notch down to the finest detail. Great acoustic sound also. As you can see I have nothing but superlatives for the Heritage Standard Eagle Classic. I highly recommend it.
Like many Jazz Guitar Online Forum members, I play chord melody and improvisational jazz with my Heritage Standard Eagle Classic. Although I'm sure they're out there, I can't imagine a better jazz archtop.
OTOH, there are so many outstanding choices for a jazz guitar. It can be truly difficult to settle on one. Good luck on your endeavor. BTW, I did play a Gibson LeGrand once and was very impressed.
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not according to Ric Severson Originally Posted by jzucker
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Just my opinion, but the Heritage Archtops tend to be thinner tops and backs which produce a brighter tone and also feedback easier as well.
Gibson tends to use thicker carved tops and backs which produce more mids and also tend to feedback less. Again it’s all personal preference and depends on the specific guitar.
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Id say your new campy was in that class!? Originally Posted by wzpgsr
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It's actually a bit thinner than these other guitars, at 2.25". In terms of quality, yes, by all means! Originally Posted by Rickco
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The Chancellor is like a Legrand, but better. Originally Posted by wzpgsr
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I haven't had any feedback problem with my Heritage that I couldn't easily control. Certainly not any more than any of the other archtops (Gibson, Eastman and Epiphone) I've owned. OTOH, I don't usually gig at feedback volume levels. I have a Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb for an amp and I play chord melody and improvisational jazz. I can play my Heritage Standard Classic Eagle at the top level on the amp's attenuator, back the guitar volume down a couple ticks...no feedback and plenty of volume. Same with the Gibson L5CES I used to own. For normal gigging, just set your amp and guitar to taste and let the board do the rest. Like I said above, the Heritage doesn't feed back any more than any other archtop I've played through. Can I make it feed back? Of course. But I've never gigged anyplace where I couldn't get enough volume due to feedback.
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