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glad they had it and you liked it. it probably is the ultimate backup amp.
i took it out to teach some private lessons tonight and almost found it too loud...had to play with the volume on my guitar more, but i found some nice tones in there...i'm definitely gonna try it out at the alhambra-- i have a few bigger better paying gigs coming up later in the month (including the woodstock jazz festival) and i'm debating whether or not it's making those gigs, or if i'm going back to the polytone...it definitely sounds different than the polytone, but still good, and the convenience factor is ridiculous.Last edited by mr. beaumont; 08-06-2009 at 12:33 AM.
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08-06-2009 12:30 AM
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Thanx Bill C! Cool, even in the Netherlands there's a dealer! (Not too close to my residence though).
One thing though, I listened to some YouTube clips. Now I know that's probably not a good measure for the sound, but I wasn't realy impressed. And my computer has a good soundcard and is hooked up to a good sound system, so it's not through some little laptop-speakers that I listened. And of course everybody on YouTube plays it with a lot of crunch and overdrive, so maybe that's what scared me, but I didn't hear a sound that I like.... Very bright and crisp, a little fuzzy even.
So who of you guys will be the first to post a YouTube- or soundclip with a good jazz-tone coming out of the Lunchbox? Idealy while playing with drums, bass, piano....
(Am I demanding?
)
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Here's some that may help you...
Originally Posted by Little Jay
One thing though, I listened to some YouTube clips. Now I know that's probably not a good measure for the sound, but I wasn't realy impressed. And my computer has a good soundcard and is hooked up to a good sound system, so it's not through some little laptop-speakers that I listened. And of course everybody on YouTube plays it with a lot of crunch and overdrive, so maybe that's what scared me, but I didn't hear a sound that I like.... Very bright and crisp, a little fuzzy even.
So who of you guys will be the first to post a YouTube- or soundclip with a good jazz-tone coming out of the Lunchbox? Idealy while playing with drums, bass, piano....
(Am I demanding? )
here's a definite jazz-oriented vid, tho it seems to've been done using a camera-mic--wish they wouldn't do that--it's picking up the room, the sound of the archtop itself etc....making it a harder to tell what the amp itself actually sounds like:
With violin--but violin seems a good litmus-test instrument for an amp's fidelity/audio quality/warmth:
Last edited by janepaints; 08-06-2009 at 11:12 AM.
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another update: a little outboard reverb is a very nice touch with these. i tried out a EHX Holy Grail and an Alesis nanoverb with it today, and the sound really opened up...it was a little "snappy" before, almost too focused, if there's such a thing...liked it with the grail better--the alesis kept driving the amp a little bit higher at the settings i like, and lowering the amount of input thinned out the sound more than i liked.
it's kind of a bummer they didn't put in a real reverb actually, because it wouldn't have needed to be to complicated a circuit--just a little digital verb would be fine--no need for a tank. IMHO, the HG is nothing special--it's just there to make the notes decay less sharply...who knows, maybe for the third generation...
--looks like actual reverb will be a part of the "club" amp they've been talking about.
i'm still quite pleased with the little beast.
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I got one of the lunchbox amps a couple of weeks ago, and I'm really pleased with it. It's not so great with my piezo-equiped instruments, but so far, I've used it with my Telecaster and my lap steel, and it sounds great. A friend is going to loan me a vintage Dearmond pickup for my Epiphone Zenith, and I'm hoping that it'll work well with that too. When I got it, I thought that I'd probably need to run it through a cabinet, but so far, I haven't felt the need. I'm using it in a 6-piece western swing band with drums. I'm currently saving up for a second one!
Here's a tip for you Lunchbox owners: the amp fits perfectly in one of those little, soft sided six-pack coolers. I got one at the thrift store for a couple of bucks, and it has a shoulder strap and two large outside pockets that a couple of pedals and cord will fit into. Now I can show up for a gig with the little bag over my shoulder and my guitar in my hand.
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I'm not trying to annoy anyone here but today I go my ZT Lunchbox after deliberating for some time. It feels like I tried a couple of dozen amps to get to this point...
Vey sexy, very little, very aluminum. The wife says "Ahhh, I love that. It's sooo cute" Daughters (11 & 15) are arguing for it's love. I'm saying "what about the sound though?" After fighting off the rest of the family, I plug it in play with it for nearly 8 hours straight and am left wondering what all the fuss is about. Sure it's very loud but for £250, I expected more.
I have a decent guitar but despite the amp's cuteness and novelty value, if you actually listen to it and take an objective view, the sound is really no better (at listen at home volumes) than any average practice amp. One of my my daughters has a little Line 6 combo (£65) and the other one has a Laney of similar value and I have to say, hand on heart, that either of those have a fuller and more satisfying frequency response than this little aluminum wonder. They don't have the volume but I don't care about that! It's also noisy - lots of hiss and buzzing even using HB's and a really wierd hissssss.click.hissssss.click.hissssss.click noise that goes on all the time!
Even the kids have played it, another jazz guitarist friend has had a go and all have been amazed at it's averageness!
I don't want to buy eq's, reverbs, external cabs etc to beef up the sound, the thing's already £250 and these trinkets will cost another £250!
So, with much nervousness, I headed out to the local music shop and quietly purchase a Cube 80X for less money that the ZT and you know what? The thing kicks ass. It has a fantastic, full, rich sound straight out of the box. I just plugged it in, added the guitar and there was the sound I'd been looking for for ages. Right there, no extra cabs, no pedals, no nothing.
Not much of a looker but the sound is right on the money!
The ZT's going back for sure. Other than a "whoa, what the hell's that" type of conversation starter, I just can't see how anyone who has, or can only afford one amp can possibly be satisfied with this thing!
Like I said, I'm not trying to annoy anyone but I honestly don't get it...
Back to playing with the Cube now.....
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This may be a UK thing, but it sounds like you got dinged on the price. Sam Ash has it for $US259.
I've never played one but I know there are a couple fans in this forum, but mainly for the price & size.
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... it's just the reality of importing gear from the US to the EU. add international shipping to the US price, then add about 20% on top of the goods plus shipping price (import duty and Value Added Tax) and there's your UK price. Similarly EU made gear probably appears overpriced in the US Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
Last edited by Bill C; 10-02-2009 at 01:41 PM.
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i've made a lot of comments about the lunchbox, and i'll pipe in again.
it's not the holy grail of tone, but i do think it provides a pretty transparent clean that will work fine for jazz. it's small, light, and loud.
set the gain at least halfway up. thru my guitars, that is still completely clean no matter how hard i hit it. having the gain halfway up minimizes the signal to noise ratio.
it does sound better thru an external cab. it does sound better with a little reverb. i agree, it'd never be my only amp, but it will always be in the trunk as a backup too.
it 250 bucks here, it's a good deal. given the exchange rate, i don't think it's worth what you paid for it.
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It's a relatively simple matter to design/produce a high-power, solid-state amplifier with state-of-the-art performance.
But the transducer (loudspeaker) technology that converts amplified electrical signals to sound pressure waves and then couples them to the air (and thence to the ear), hasn't kept pace with electronic progress in general.
There's an old expression regarding high performance automobile engines: no substitute for cubic inches (or cubic liters) and the same expression works very nicely for loudspeakers/enclosures.
You can build an amplifier that will mostly suit your needs, costs very little and fits in an overcoat pocket BUT - for decent sound - still gotta' lug that inefficient speaker cabinet along
cheers
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You hit the nail on the head, there. (And I can tell you have a college diploma, "transducer technology that converts amplified electrical signals to sound pressure waves and then couples them to the air" Garsh!)
We all want small amps, but no one wants an amp to sound small. I have to admit to this schizophrenia. I love the sound of 15" inch speakers, then I think, but the amp is louder than I could ever need. One day I'll find a quiet 15" combo
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I get the relationship between small speaker and limited frequency response but a couple of months ago I went out and bought a Bose Soundock Portable for my ipod. This thing manages to deliver a staggering, full range sound at reasonable SPL's, it's smaller than the ZT and works for nearly 10 hours on a rechargable battery!
Why cant we have a guitar version of this thing?
Seriously, if you've not heard the Soundock, try to. I may make you wonder why we're all still lugging around these huge boxes!
Still loving the Cube...
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And you SHOULD be still loving the cube - most jazz guitarists do, you're not imitating or conforming, you're CONFIRMING a good design ! Originally Posted by Homey
... This thing manages to deliver a staggering, full range sound at reasonable SPL's, it's smaller than the ZT and works for nearly 10 hours on a rechargable battery!
Why cant we have a guitar version of this thing? Seriously, if you've not heard the Soundock, try to. I may make you wonder why we're all still lugging around these huge boxes!
Still loving the Cube...
Insofar as your other question - a good one also - it's just headroom. Can't get the Bose to perform at bar-room levels, can you ? 10 hours on a rechargeable battery suggests an output power level of a few watts, at best.
TDD: My word, elegant stuff, thank you, you're my Madison Avenue Man ! (No sarcasm intended, nice research.)
cheers
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Nope, not bar-room levels but plenty loud for loud parties at home! I'm not sure about the wattage as Bose don't do spec!!
I think that the point I was trying to make is that the technology is out there to provide good sound from small enclosures but just not for guitarists at the moment.
I think that sticking a speaker in a box is pretty much what we've been doing since that box and speaker were invented so maybe we need a new class of device instead of relying on 75yr old technology. Maybe we need to use tuned ports and reflex enclosures with small speakers to get those lows.
Go Bose...
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Homey:
Well, you're thinking about it instead of looking for a Fender Twin, that's a very good thing ! The only way that technology will progress is for us to demand it.
The Bose architecture works for parties but it won't work for gigging, not even small venues. With respect, physical laws limit our desires and expectations so don't invite drummer friends to play along with the Bose.
Your heart, mind and ears are in the right place and your criticism is properly applied.
cheers,
randyc
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randyc, since you're knowledgeable about amplification technology, may I ask you what is the acoustic difference between using two small amps (with small speakers, say two Cube 30X) in stereo (or a single amp with two small speakers) and using a single big amp (with a bigger speaker, say a Cube 60/80X)? Are there merits in the first solution, or a single bigger speaker is always better than two smaller ones? Do the latter produce the same sound of a single small speaker, only louder, or a tighter, more definite, sound?
Thank you!
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I've had the ZT for a few months now, and I've used it at quite a few gigs. I've used it for bar gigs, big outdoor weddings, etc. Mostly I play a telecaster through it, but sometimes a lap steel. I agree that it's not the greatest tone machine in the whole world, but at $260 shipped, I didn't think it was going to be. I've been able to get a fairly decent tone out of it most of the time. I could say the same about my blackface Bandmaster too. They sound completely different, depending on the venue. I will say that it's absolutely worthless for piezo-equipt instruments without some kind of buffer. What makes the ZT a good choice for me is it's extreme portability and ease of use-that headphone out with volume control makes the soundman REALLY happy. I have a 15" speaker and soon I'll get around to building a cabinet for it. I'll make the fiddle player carry it.
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You're verging on psychoaccoustic territory now, something that hasn't really been inclusive in my career as a design engineer. But a little common sense could go a long way ... Originally Posted by Fidelcaster
A small speaker, with limited frequency response will get 3 dB LOUDER if another identical speaker is added, driven at the same level. It will not increase the frequency response at all ... some might even argue that the frequency response is degraded as the music source changes from a single pole to a two-pole structure (but I'm not taking that position).
Low frequency response - that which is lacking in small speakers - I believe is largely limited by the magnitude of the cone travel (ignoring the contribution of the enclosure). I'm not expert at this but intuition suggests that the diameter, shape and flexibility of the surround material of the cone are the greatest contributors to cone travel, consequently the abiliity to reproduce low frequencies.
It's always easy to obtain enhanced high frequency response: $3 tweeter and $5 worth of crossover components will get you beyond human audibility easily ! The trick is getting the bass and mid-range out of a reasonable speaker/enclosure combination without fooling Mother Nature.
Bose, with their accoustic waveguide structures, have come close. They are truly impressive little speaker systems, as Homey noted above. But so far as I know, they have limitations in power level if not in frequency response.
My personal belief is that bigger is better If I could get someone to carry my Showman cabinet with the D-130, I'd use it every time even if I'm only driving it with a 20 watt amplifier ! But my aging body lobbies strongly for the use of the Champ, Ampeg or Galaxie amplifiers, all under 35 pounds, plus a line out to the PA.
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I'm glad to see folks being realistic about the Lunchbox. Homey, I'm glad that you were able to try it for yourself without being out-of-pocket for a piece of gear that doesn't work for you.
There's definitely a place for tiny, loud, lightweight amps. ZT fans, though, have made some pretty wild claims about the sound of the amp - claims that fly in the face of common sense, not to mention the laws of physics.
It's not all that difficult to make a loud noise. Consider those ubiquitous little piezo speakers that one finds in cell phones and on the back of trucks. They consume hardly any power and generate lots of sound. But that sound is at a specific frequency. Or subwoofers in cars (and, much to my chagrin, in many live sound installations) that can produce extreme sound pressures over a range of an octave or less.
It's a real challenge to reproduce a wide range of frequencies clearly and without undue emphasis of any range of frequencies. This is what hi-fi and quality live sound reproduction is all about.
Guitar amplification falls somewhere between the extremes of loud, efficient single-note production and accurate reproduction of the full audio spectrum at some desired listening level. The field is dominated by subjective taste rather than objective quality metrics since the amplifier is an integral part of the instrument that is an amplified guitar.
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Just to add a bit of speaker technology observance to the discussion, I learned years ago that small, inefficient ALNiCO speakers, like the Weber Sig 10S (cheaper 10" vintage series, like $40), will give wondrous tones in smaller amps. I first tried them in my Princeton Reverb, than in a Super Champ XD (25 lbs), then a Champ 600. The speaker design and the ALNiCO magnet fixed the ice pick highs of ceramic speakers at lower volumes, and really increased mids (when wanted) and lows. The sound is full, complex and rich. Before I got there, I tried Jensen, Naylor, Eminence, Celestion, Kendrick, etc., when discovering that the ALNiCO magnet is the key, with a caveat: the Eminence Red Fang, while better than ceramic, doesn't equal Weber 12A150 series. Others have also reported same fix on other amps than Fender, just check Weber Speaker forums. Cheap fix as anyone can replace a speaker.
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Teobeck, I agree with your observations. But we're getting into the unobservables here, psychoaccoustics again.
As an engineer whose career was partly based on the ability to observe and quantify the phenomena of electronic behaviour, this always makes me nervous and insecure. I feel better when I have instrumentation available to establish baseline performance.
And all that gobbledy-gook doesn't dispute the fact that lots of other people feel the same way about those alnico speakers as you and I do.
Good call !
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I'm sorry but I see a few, although not all, missed the point. The Lunchbox main (only?) claims to fame are *size* and *weight*, coupled to an incredible volume and quality, considering, er, should I say it?: size and weight.
15 inch speakers? (or 12 inch for that matter); 42 pound tube amplifiers? .....
Worthy contenders, should I add, .... if only they could fit into a lunchbox size cabinet and weigh 4.5 pounds.
Can you play a gig with the Bose thing, or the "little line 6 combo"?
The bottleneck is the speaker, and the ZT guys managed to fit an incredible amount of sound into a very little bottleneck.
Getting more to the point: there are many acceptable 6" guitar speakers (Mod 6, C6R, G6L35, etc.), but usually only 90/92 dB efficient and 15W (or at most 30W) capable. Great for the bedroom, maybe recording or even a quiet all-acoustic gig.
The ZT 6" supports more than 130W RMS (so far, not that big deal), but I estimate an efficiency around 96/98 dB , above 200 hZ , which is incredible.
They don't supply any better information about their speaker and I was not allowed to trace it with proper instruments, but I could compare it, side by side, with good known speakers and it did easily match those with the efficiency mentioned above, with the obvious exception of bass "thump"
That's the point.
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Hi,
The lunch box is a decent amp. I have had it for a couple of months now and while it lacks bass response it is very clean and loud. I have a zoom pedal with (way too many) effects. I usually just use the pedal for volume control and tuner. After setting some of the patches with some reverb and a little more low end the lunchbox sounds pretty awesome. It didn't cut it with a band unless we were playing ballads. It works really well playing in a duo plugged into the pa system though.
I have a JC 90 and a cube 60 (among others) and quite honestly it is a joy to play out of any of them!
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Hi all,
I've had the ZT Amp for a couple of weeks now, and I really love it. So far I've used it on a Quartet gig, Sax, Bass, Drums, Guitar and the amp had no problem. I also used it in a medium sized bar in a duo with a flutist/singer.
I have used it so far with my Gibson L5-S and this amp is really cool. I like to describe it by saying that during the gig I forgot about my equipment and just played. What more do you need? This amp is a godsend in a place like NYC, subways etc. I'm definitely not getting rid of my other amps but I can see this amp will be very useful on many gigs to come!
I also use my little pedal board which has a Steel Guitar Black Box (hand made tube preamp: Steel Guitar Black Box) into an Ernie Ball VP Junior volume pedal, into a TC Electronic Nova Reverb. With that system it's a great sound.
I can take all that stuff on a cart to my students and go from there to a gig without killing myself! I used to do that sometimes with my Music Man 110-RD-Fifty and that thing weighs 38 lbs by itself, not including my pedalboard, music stand, etc.
Also, we moved uptown here to Harlem over the summer and I plan to go and sit in everywhere around here. There are plenty of clubs within walking distance of our new apartment. Normally sitting in (even in a jam session) is a hassle if you play guitar. The whole amp thing, etc. But with this amp, I'll just bring a volume pedal and that's it!
I will definitely be using it, too, on wedding gigs where I play for ceremonies, cocktail hours etc. For a ceremony where I have to play alone, there's no point in bringing anything else. I think it would even be fine with a string quartet I work with from time to time. I play my Nylon string guitars through the Fishman Aura Nylon Pedal, Volume Pedal, amp. Excellent sound with that Fishman Aura!!
Enjoy!!Last edited by Bloomworks; 11-15-2009 at 07:41 AM.
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I have a question for you lunchbox owners can you get clean to drive/distortion sound with just your guitar volume ,working the drive and volume on the amp also at lower volume level ...Or do you have to have drive/distortion pedal ,I'm really thinking of buying the ZT AMP Club 12 when it comes out.
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