Gibson Tal Farlow Appreciation Thread

[jzjazz]

I don't get it. I have listened to two Tal Farlow clips today (this one and Joe Ds) and none sounded anything like mine. As if I was listening to a different model.

DB

I see what you mean, but I can still hear that it is a Tal on all mentioned recordings, al least I hope so (after taking your blindfold test a couple days ago I can't be sure of anything though).

One idea is that you record your Tal pretty dry (which makes it sound fatter), I like a touch of a long hall reverb, which makes it sound thinner, but sweeter ;-)

[jzjazz]

Btw. I would love someone who's determined enough to listen through the whole thing to actually write some critique.

I'd rather hear one voice saying "intro time could be better", "too many notes on the solo", "not enough contact/connection between the two of you", than 5 saying that it's great only this way we can improve. I know not many of us like that, but I'm one of the few!

[Dutchbopper]

Btw. I would love someone who's determined enough to listen through the whole thing to actually write some critique.

I'd rather hear one voice saying "intro time could be better", "too many notes on the solo", "not enough contact/connection between the two of you", than 5 saying that it's great only this way we can improve. I know now many of us like that, but I'm one of the few!

This is tricky territory. I steer clear of telling others what I really think. More often than not when I read "that sounds great" or "great playing" I hear mediocrity at best. Sometimes downright poor playing. That's the way of the internet. I have been on fora almost 20 years and it has always been like that.

I think "great playing" on the internet means something like "not bad"or "I kind of like it" It does not have much intrinsic meaning IMHO. It's just a platitude.

Truly great playing is done by ... well the jazz greats. Usually not by members found on fora.

A better term is "nice playing." But I really do not wish to criticise others. Nor do I wish to give any advice.

Wow, I am opiniated today. Please forgive me ...

DB

[Dutchbopper]

I see what you mean, but I can still hear that it is a Tal on all mentioned recordings, al least I hope so (after taking your blindfold test a couple days ago I can't be sure of anything though).

One idea is that you record your Tal pretty dry (which makes it sound fatter), I like a touch of a long hall reverb, which makes it sound thinner, but sweeter ;-)

I'm not sure if the reverb makes all the difference. I'd expect a bit more thunk from a Tal. Maybe a more poppin' percussive tone ... I recorded this (lofi) clip with a Polytone, all eq flat. This is how I expect my Tal to sound in a live situation more or less:

What I am aiming at with my Tal is the sound I hear on Tal's 50s recordings. Just listen to the poppin' low end. I think my Tal gets that sound quite a bit.

DB

[jzjazz]

I'm not sure if the reverb makes all the difference. I'd expect a bit more thunk from a Tal. Maybe a more poppin' percussive tone ... I recorded this (lofi) clip [...]

What I am aiming at with my Tal is the sound I hear on Tal's 50s recordings. Just listen to the poppin' low end. I think my Tal gets that sound quite a bit [...]

I agree that this Tal Farlow recording sounds completely different than mine. I don't see the similarity to your recording - in yours I hear a lot of acoustic sound of the guitar (which you won't have in a live situation) and this might imitate the short and agressive attack of the Tal Farlow recording, but it isn't even close to my ears (although some of your other recordings come closer).

I don't know the answer but I guess the difference comes as a sum of a couple small things:
- player and his technique, problably a much stronger attack than mine. His lines sound sometimes like played staccato, maybe because the strong attack doesn't underline the sustain of the guitar. When attacked gently, the remaining tail is more audible (just a guess)
- string gauge, I'm pretty sure Tal wasn't playing .11
- amp? recording technique (maybe they used a ribbon or a tube mike back then)?
- vintage vs modern Tal?

I'm pretty sure that Tal Farlow playing a 175 would have sounded more like a Gibson Tal Farlow, than us playing a Gibson Tal Farlow ;-)

[Dutchbopper]

I agree that this Tal Farlow recording sounds completely different than mine. I don't see the similarity to your recording - in yours I hear a lot of acoustic sound of the guitar (which you won't have in a live situation) and this might imitate the short and agressive attack of the Tal Farlow recording, but it isn't even close to my ears (although some of your other recordings come closer).

I have to disagree. To my ears it's close enough to approach the Farlow sound of the 1950s. The mike on this recording was too far away to pick up much acoustic sound. I zoomed in the image tremendously later.

Same here, pretty sure there was no acoustic sound interferes because on both cases the camcorder was yards away, aimed at the amp and the image zoomed in.

I a/bed my Tal with a 1964 Tal Farlow and mine sounded a bit darker and mellower, but that was all. It was not a better sounding guitar IMHO.

What I like about the Tal is the puch and thunk.

DB

[Greentone]

DB,

Your Tal gets the thunk that I associate with TF records.

Nice.

[Dutchbopper]

DB,

Your Talk gets the thunk that I associate with TF records.

Nice.

Thanks. Wasn't it you that stated that the ES 350 was your dream guitar? Well, mine too!

Here's a clip with that 1964 Tal Farlow. Unfortunately I had to play it through a crappy Lunchbox amp. It was in a store.

[Dutchbopper]

True, I've used the wrong word. I rather mean a very good player than a pro.
Haha, I don't think so. I'm not trying to make you give me advice or teach me anything, just saying that this kind of input would be nice. Not neccesarily from You :-)

I was more referring to my other remark about guys lining up etc.

I do agree with you that there are many variables at stake in a sound. The guitar is just one of them. I just listened to a few clips that I recorded with an L5 Wesmo and ... it was still me ...

DB

[vinlander]

...What I like about the Tal is the puch and thunk...

DB

Its also what makes it appealing to me and sold me on that guitar tone a long time ago.
Incidentally the Bobby and Sal recording of your Tal is my favorite despite being lofi and my favorite Tal record is also that Ed Fuerst lofi recording.
The Tal really cured my Archtop GAS, the only thing I would replace it with would be maybe an original 350 or a Vintage Tal and that is not gonna happen.

[Dutchbopper]

Its also what makes it appealing to me and sold me on that guitar tone a long time ago. Incidentally the Bobby and Sal recording of your Tal is my favorite despite being lofi and my favorite Tal record is also that Ed Fuerst lofi recording. The Tal really cured my Archtop GAS, the only thing I would replace it with would be maybe an original 350 or a Vintage Tal and that is not gonna happen.

Hi Vinlander,

Yes, I know you like this particular recording. To my surprise I found a video of "Just Friends" on my Youtube page that must have been recorded around the same time. Maybe you dig this one too:

I apologise to the OP for hijacking his thread ... And I congratulate him with his TF. My comments were not intended to spoil his NGD. The TF has been the best value for money in the entire Gibson offering for years and his will be no exception.

DB

[skiboyny]

You pick very close to the end of the fretboard. Much different than the OP. This along with the attack would account for the tonal differences. Ultimately the sound is in the player.

I'm not sure if the reverb makes all the difference. I'd expect a bit more thunk from a Tal. Maybe a more poppin' percussive tone ... I recorded this (lofi) clip with a Polytone, all eq flat. This is how I expect my Tal to sound in a live situation more or less:

What I am aiming at with my Tal is the sound I hear on Tal's 50s recordings. Just listen to the poppin' low end. I think my Tal gets that sound quite a bit.

DB

[rpguitar]

Jakub, your Tal sounds really sweet, smooth, and has that "liquid" electric tone that I associate with an L-5CES (my personal favorite). The combination of you and your Tele-enabled friend is really nice indeed. Your Tal fills out the bottom while his Tele floats on top of that. Your playing sounds effortless and flowing.

Generally speaking, I'm not a big fan of the much-vaunted thunk, and most Tal recordings I've heard to date have seemed somewhat dull to me tonally. Yours is an exception. It has the dynamic range I crave in an electric archtop sound. Your delicate touch brings that out. Congratulations on your guitar!

[jzjazz]

Here's another song from the same day:

[GNAPPI]

Congrats on getting the TF. That git has the rare distinction of having great sound at an unbelievably affordable price.

[rpjazzguitar]

Btw. I would love someone who's determined enough to listen through the whole thing to actually write some critique.

I'd rather hear one voice saying "intro time could be better", "too many notes on the solo", "not enough contact/connection between the two of you", than 5 saying that it's great only this way we can improve. I know not many of us like that, but I'm one of the few!

I thought both guitars sounded great. And I think both players sounded great. My only quibble is that I like chord melody played in strict time. Just my taste but I always notice when somebody has to delay things to grab a chord -- which I heard on the Tele near the beginning of Dream. All the solos sounded great. I thought the time feel on A Train was particularly good when the Tal was comping.

I think the Tal is the most beautiful guitar. I love the way they look.

[jzjazz]

I thought both guitars sounded great. And I think both players sounded great. My only quibble is that I like chord melody played in strict time. Just my taste but I always notice when somebody has to delay things to grab a chord -- which I heard on the Tele near the beginning of Dream. All the solos sounded great. I thought the time feel on A Train was particularly good when the Tal was comping.

I think the Tal is the most beautiful guitar. I love the way they look.

Thanks! I'm not too happy with my (Tal) intro to DTD, but because of the exact opposite - I would like it to be more relaxed and laid back, more rubato

I'm not a huge fan of the Tal design (although I like it more than the 175, but much less than the L5), but it sounds sooo gooood to my ears, that it doesn't matter, at all!

[QAman]

Jakub,
Congrats with your new Tal ! Your playing was very nice and didn't wander too far from the melody - which I really enjoyed. As for the overall tone, you would certainly experience a bit more warmth / richness with an increase in string gage and perhaps a thicker pick.

Most jazz players like flat would thunk- but I actually prefer a round wound acoustic amplified sound with some overtone and sustain - which I feel facilitates the continuity of chord melody playing and offers more expressive freedom. I find flat wound thunk better suited to single note soloing - just my experience and you may want to experiment with strings.

The sunburst on this Tal is truly gorgeous and thanks for sharing !

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

[Burrellesque]

Has anyone tried a P90 type single coil on the Tal reissue?

[Neyzensia]

The price new unfortunately like the 175 has risen significantly in the last couple years which is also driving up the used market. Viceroy Brown finish which was the original color is now a $800 up charge. My 2006 was $2800 brand new and my 2014 was $4800. Well considering a new L5 is 10K I guess it is still a good deal ? Still priced equally with a 175.
Well everything musical is very pricey now. A top of the line sax is just as expensive. Can you imagine what a hand carved acoustic bass costs these days ?

Guys, I’m on the fence of purchasing a mint 2014 Tal for around 4K from a seller in another state.
Has anyone played a few enough of these reissues around the same year to verify they all are high quality?
I’ve read a few horror stories of gits coming out of the custom shop with issues, so a bit apprehensive to buy without playing. I’ve only tried L4s and L5’s and want something in the ballpark for bebop.

woulf you guys buy without playing if a reputable seller? Says it’s from the crimson team at Gibson whatever that means

[vinlander]

Guys, I’m on the fence of purchasing a mint 2014 Tal for around 4K from a seller in another state.
Has anyone played a few enough of these reissues around the same year to verify they all are high quality?
I’ve read a few horror stories of gits coming out of the custom shop with issues, so a bit apprehensive to buy without playing. I’ve only tried L4s and L5’s and want something in the ballpark for bebop.

woulf you guys buy without playing if a reputable seller? Says it’s from the crimson team at Gibson whatever that means

4K is in the higher spectrum of what they can be had second hand if you look a bit around.
But its true the prices have increased a bit since about 3 or 4 years ago when you could still get a used Viceroy Brown for a bit under 3K in mint condition if you were patient or opportunist.
Maybe the market realised how undervalued they are for the tone they can deliver, still the best value for money in my book!
Of course the cosmetics are not for everyone's taste, the main reason I suspect they still lack the demand, but also because like the L4, it tends to stand between 2 flagships instruments: the 175 and the L5!
If you read comments from most fellow members here that have or had a Tal Reissue most are either praising it (I do) or regretting selling it, not gonna happen to me
Not that they are all perfect, my '96 originally came with a badly cut nut from Custom Shop... but generally speaking, they have a reputation of being quite consistent over the years.
They are great versatile archtop that can give you a convincing traditional bebop tone and you can also dial a more Methenesque modern tone particularly when using the bridge pickup too.
Even if lately I tend to play more my '59 125, I will never part with my Tal Farlow, its a stunning instrument and plays like butter.

[stringmaster]

I’ve only played two by chance at GC. The first was great all around-I probably should have bought it! The second sounded good, but boy was it heavy—I’m talking heavy Les Paul heavy—a deal breaker for me. Quality was good on both. But I’d check the weight!

[vinnyv1k]

I have owned 3 Tal’s. One the famed Boo-boo now owned by Joe D. I would off my L5’s before my Tal. Love it !
Since they are no longer being made the prices are going thru the roof. Getting pretty hard to get one.

[Greentone]

Seems to me that the TFS should appreciate now. The original series are pretty expensive. But the reissue guitars are great 17" Gibson laminate jazz archtops, built when Gibson was doing good work.

They are ideal jazz boxes.

[Neyzensia]

Guys, what strings is everyone playing on their Tals? I was going to go with chrome flat 11’s or 12’s for jazz, but now am considering going with rounds as they seem pretty versatile for other styles. Tough call, as flats get that darker Wes sound, but seem to limit a bit stylistically

my teacher rich Severson uses D’Addario chrome 11 flats and puts a 13 & 15 on top:

Any suggestions? I’ve never tried 1/2 flats either...