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I've heard the Quantum version. The Axe sounds as if there is a rough draft of the tone and all the frequencies are represented but there is no body. YMMV.
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02-03-2016 11:21 AM
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You played it or just heard it? You played with it and dialed in tones or what? Just clarifying.
Originally Posted by HCarlH
I mean for myself, I couldn't pass judgement on any piece of gear, guitar, amp until I sat with it and twiddled for a good hour. But I'm just saying. I never could, for example, listen to YouTube or recordings to hear what really was happening. So many other barriers: video compression, audio post eq and compression. I never listen to clips for sound. I'm of a rare opinion.
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I've heard several Youtube clips. Other products sound fine to me in Youtube clips.
If others love the Axe, that's great.
It's obviously a well made piece of gear with a lot of effects and features.
(I almost bought the Axe II.) It's just the organic thing I don't hear.
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That's totally fine. I can't listen to YouTube for audio as I said. I hear the organic thing. It's there if you want it to be, gone if you don't.
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I totally agree with you on this. When you listen on youtube, you hear the recording chain (and the room) at least as much as you hear the item being demo'd, and the settings chosen by the player maybe even more than either of those. Plus (at least for me) the question is never really what does it sound like?" It's more "can I get the sounds I want out of it?" Only demos where the player tries to get those tones answer that question (and as JZ notes, most demo-ers' idea of clean is really something else). Originally Posted by henryrobinett
John
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i think you need to play through them yourself before making final judgements on these things. I have mentioned several times that if you are looking for a very specific tone out of a very specific amp, the kemper is superior because other than the amp's effects, the kemper can capture a very specific tone at a very specific set of volume and tone settings and with a very specific speaker better than anything else on the market because it's a sample player.
The axefx is a synthesizer that interprets the circuit design of the amp with tweaks that Cliff has derived from his digital signal processing / software design and musical instrument amplifier experience. Then on top of that, there is tone matching which is a profiling methodology that axefx employs that allows you to split the difference between circuit design and sampling playing methodologies.
All I know is that I like the fender amp models better on axefx than kemper but the actual differences are too difficult to compare directly.
I originally thought I'd do a shootout but a shootout is not fair because with the kemper you're just playing back samples of a very specific set of parameters. The tone and volume controls on the kemper work "after the fact" whereas they work as the amp does on the axefx.
Anyway, this is all mumbo-jumbo. They both sound and are both extremely versatile and to me sound as good as any boutique tube amp or better I've ever played through.
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just wanted to mention that I just spent an hour going back and forth between the kemper set to a modified version of ampfactory's vibroverb (with the gain all the way off) and the axefx vibroverb.
Conclusion - too close to tell. Other than the spring reverb on the axefx, the tone, feel and organic quality were identical. I doubt anyone could tell them apart.
axefx wins for versatility and effect quality though.
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thanks for the tip! I checked out the badger, backed off the gain and really liked the clean sound. A bit like a clean dumble sound, right?! Pretty fat and neither shrill nor boomy. Originally Posted by 55bar
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:-) you'll be fine ... The first hour with the Kemper was a bit overwhelming, but then it started to make perfect sense and it is actually quite similar to operating an actual amp. Profiling is a piece of cake and works great. I have not used any of my amps since I have the Kemper. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I'm actually starting to think I might not be smart enough for one of these amps
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True that. I haven't used one of my amps since I got the Axe Fx 4 or so years ago. Not once. I sold my Boogie Quad and still have my real Deluxe Reverb actual 1965 because it's such a classic. I sold a Yamaha Twin I never used. I'm trying to figure out how to buy another Axe Fx II, or just the floor model A8. Originally Posted by FrankLearns
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p.s. tried the 30w badger, did not dig it for archtop at all. Sounded dry and lifeless, lol. Also for some reason, the volume is really low until you turn the gain up which I didn't want to do.
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That's good to know, eventually I know I'll get a Kemper or the new AX8. The AX8 has several advantages to me but I was affraid it didn't sound as good as the Kemper. Would love to hear a clip of both! Originally Posted by jzucker
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I may do that if it doesn't sell right away. I have an ax8 coming early next week. I may sell the axefx II MK II when it arrives or perhaps I'll just keep it for studio use but i'm definitely selling the kemper. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
The ax8 has a few limitations like inability to have 2 amps in a single profile and it has some memory limitations and only a single processor but so far, I haven't come close to maxing out a profile on the axefx to the point where it wouldn't run on the ax8.
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I'm confused, is the AxeF8 effects only ? If so, presumably you would still need an amp or amp simulator . Or, alternatively, can you get all the same essential amp and cabinet sounds and possibilities from for example a computer software editing program, into the AxeF8? Like you can with the POD?
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AX8 is the smaller version in a large pedal. You can put it in a suitcase and jump on a plance. Fractal Audio Systems - AX8 Amp Modeler + Multi-Effects Pedalboard Processor
The FX8 is the effects box.
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Jack, I sure wouldn't sell that Kemper right away if you haven't tried the latest OS. Put "pure cab" on it & screw around with it a bit. Tweak the definition and sens and distortion sens settings. Then there's OS 4.0 coming out this month too. I've not tried AXfx but I've got some pretty nice amps & I'm leaning towards this machine. I'm kinda thinking once you've got the box these units are running neck to neck and they're just constantly upgrading the software.
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that axefx ii has more than 2x the processing power. Time based effects can never be as good. So for example, you can never get an accurate holdsworth clean tone on the kemper without external effects. I don't doubt that kemper will keep improving and I do think their technology yields great and accurate renditions of a particular amp but not being limited to a commercial version of an amp is huge IMO. Many of the amp models that are built in are flawed because they were captured at higher gain settings than what I'd ever use and the same is true of many of the commercial profiles. Originally Posted by geoffsct
Anyway, they are both great pieces of gear. I wish I could find a way financially to keep both.
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You have probably posted this earlier in the thread but how are you running the Axefx?
Be interested to see if you are going FFFR cab or not. I've tried the Matrix power amp and their N12, currently using their powered FFFR Monitor, and keeping the power amp section on in the AXE.
The Badger sounds great but I'm using it in a show with a "strat" type guitar I forgot you were maybe using an archtop. Glad you are enjoying it.
The frequency of their software updates is incredible, and there is always something very noticeable each time they update.
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i did try using the badger with a strat and I agree it sounds great in that context. I'm using a pair of Alto TS110A powered speakers.
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So, I spent some more time last night with a friend of mine. We took two presets on the kemper and the axefx and went between them with the same speaker. (My TS110A has 2 XLR inputs)
We compared a fender vibroverb and a Dumble ODS 100 on both amps. I was playing my Seventy Seven Albatross setup with .011 roundwound D'Addario jazz-rock strings.
The kemper profile was an ampfactory vibroverb with jenson 15 and the ODS profile (unknown speaker) was mbritt.
The axefx profile was the vibroverb going through a 2x12 cab and the ODS Ford 1 dumble profile, same cab.
Results were different that the previous. We both felt that the fender sounds were more amp like on the kemper. It sounded more like a vibroverb amp on the kemper whereas the axefx sounded great but not quite exactly like you were playing through a tube amp. We both liked the axefx a little better and concluded that the vibroverb profile on the kemper had been captured with a speaker that neither of us cared for with regards to clean jazz playing.
The biggest difference was on the dumble amp. We both felt that the kemper dumble amp sounded like a $50,000 dumble amp whereas the axefx sounded great but not quite like an amp. more like playing through a loud amp with a zendrive or other dumble style overdrive. They were both set to about the same apparent gain/overdrive settings but when I turned the guitar down, the kemper cleaned up like a great dumble/two rock amp whereas the axefx moreorless got quieter but not exactly like a real amp would. Again, more like a pedal would react. With the guitar turned down on the kemper you could get a nice clean(-esque) tone but you could dig in and make the note squeal and sing through guitar dynamics. This was not quite the case with the axefx.
Regarding effects, as expected the kemper delays, reverbs and choruses sounded toy-like. They are not even as good as a decent set of pedals whereas the axefx versions sounded studio quality and rivaled some of the dedicated time-based effects processors.
The overdrive effects such as fuzz, zendrive and TS9 were way better on the axefx and sounded much more authentic. For example, the fuzz on the axefx cleaned up very well when you turned the guitar down whereas the kemper version does not. Same with the TS9 pedal. Kemper doesn't have a zendrive but the zendrive on the axefx is fantastic.
Anyway, it makes for a tough decision. I'm now amending my previous conclusion and want to say that the axefx amp simulation is not quite at the level of the kemper but that most everything else about it is superior. If you are playing clean sounds, I think the axefx is the way to go but if you are doing dumble style overdrives, the kemper profiles sound more realistic. I'm going to copy this content to the original post in the thread for new folks who take a look at this.
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I was reading in a review somewhere pretty much the same. The Kemper does have lower processing power but it's profiling method is much more efficient and doesn't require that power. It's more like a mirror image whereas Axefx is a computer detail simulation of what each circuit type should do. And as you state, the fx are better in the Axefx with the more processing power. I don't understand too much of this but that Kemper sure sounds great. I might put it in a small rack with my MPX1. Another thing I like is that the Kemper seems to stay cool while I understand the Axefx needs a fan.
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If the kemper stuff was profiled with eq and volume settings not to your liking why not just hunt down a favorite fender tube amp locally and make your own profile? You make a couple profiles with different cabs. Seems like theres always someone with some sweet tube amps around.
Maybe I'm naive and there is more to it? Might be worth a shot to try to borrow that perfect fender vibroverb (or whatever) and make your own. Maybe start a market for Jacks True Clean Kemper profiles.
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On the Kemper's Cab block the Hi Shift and Low Shift can be your best friends for tweaking a cabinet. Also see pg. 13 of Kemper's reference manual for "Browsing Amps or Cabinets " - If you like the Vibroverb but not the cabinet - then 'browse' the cabinets in other profiles until you find one you like. You can also load IRs with CabMaker.
Does the Axe seem like it has less dynamics than the Kemper? Like the notes jump/bounce/kerrang/etc. more on the Kemper? Especially when compared to a clean fender Fender?Last edited by MaxTwang; 02-08-2016 at 03:20 PM.
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Here's a couple Dumbly vids with the Axe showing the drive reacting to pick and guitar volume
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I don't notice it on the clean fender but on the dumble there's a huge difference. The reaction to picking is night and day on the kemper over the axefx. My buddy and I concluded that the kemper acts like a real dumble (or two rock / fuchs) whereas the axefx acts more like a pedal in that regard. It's harder to judge with a clean fender because digging in doesn't change the tone as much. It would probably be worth repeating the test on something like a JTM 45 that's slightly distorted to see if the same thing applies. Originally Posted by MaxTwang
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