-
How often do you see any dealer that takes large up close shots, especially those that highlight a guitars problem areas? I applaud those that do, but I don't come across them often. A distant guitar photo reveals nothing but a shadow of the guitar a prospective buyer is buying...what's the point, when the buyer already knows what that guitar looks like from a distance. Where's the beef?
Originally Posted by rpguitar
-
01-11-2016 04:53 PM
-
FYI...I just received a check from JV so me and him are 100% good !!! Selling anything used from cars to guitars is not a easy business to be in. Anytime you buy anything used you can't shoot from the hip. You must put a scope on your target. Thank you JV !!!
-
Guitar dealers are on the whole very small businesses built around a key individual. Many of the big names have built up their reputations over many years and they are not getting any younger. So lets be balanced before we attack or disrespect them, we need the good ones. I have by the way had good dealings with many of the dealers mentioned on this thread - its sad to see Mandolin Bros may be coming to the end of an era and Lark Street still has a regular procession of interesting gear that makes its clunky website a rather unimportant feature.
They would not have lasted if they lacked customers, especially repeat business. Despite their lack of capital for fancy websites and scientific museum standard on line photos, the long standing ones survive because of the quality of their interactions with us and their relationships with us.
The websites are just like a shop window to attract you in the door - its what happens after that that really matters. If they cannot get us in the front door then they won't stay in business. But once we are discussing a purchase or sale is the time for dealers to show they are playing fair and for customers to ask all the right questions. Nothing is better than playing the instrument but that isn't always possible. Sure if dealers screw around consignors with unapproved actions the dealer should be ashamed and held accountable and its up to vendors to use their market power.
In other words we need to use our market power to test the dealer as a buyer or consignor. If they are not playing fairly or the experience is sub par - don't buy the guitar, shift the guitar to another seller.
But if the dealer is playing fair then do business with them and celebrate them because it is good for the guitar market to be healthy so we have choice of guitars to buy and can sell them in a reasonable time at a reasonable price. Hopefully dealers make fair money and reinvest in their businesses and make it even better for customers.
A few thoughts for buyers
1. build a relationship with a dealer so you can build trust in them - visit them if you can
2. don't build expectations based on the first round of photos on the site - ask for more and especially what you think matters
3. be clear in your mind about exactly what you want e.g. as a player in terms of musical style, size/comfort; or as a collector
4. if your into vintage, do your research with books, magazines or on line so you get up to speed with all the nuances
5. do price research with price guides and check sites like gbase and reverb for comparable
6. ask specific questions about what matters to you- originality of finish, parts; intonation including truss rod; playability - action, frets; quality of sound; does everything work correctly and smoothly e.g. tuners; what modifications or repairs have been made; if it matters to you/price - proof of provenance/history
7. inspect the guitar anyway you can, take a friend
8. if the guitar or amp is being shipped - go into the specifics of packing and tracking so you are confident the item will arrive in correct order and you have your rights if it doesn't
9. confirm key details by email with the dealer so you have a paper trail on the key points
10. don't believe what you cannot prove and don't buy if you are not 100% sure you can trust that what you are paying for is what you are getting
11. some businesses fail and it isn't always possible to know this will happen - but longer standing dealers are likely to be able to back up their sales/warranties - but in the end know your dealer is another way to take some of the risk out of the deal.
-
I received my check from archtop.com today.
Just to recap in case not everyone is reading through 6 pages of posts;
sent a guitar for consignment 2 + yrs ago.
I specified that I wanted to avoid setup charges and the like and sent a guitar that was cleaned and setup already.
Then w/out my consent or knowledge, the original knobs and truss rod cover were removed and a new pickguard made and installed.
It was only after receiving my check did I become aware of the following deductions:
Custom pickguard, Gibson 5 ply wide bevel antiqued edge $85
Knobs, Gibson gold reflector cap, antiqued [4] $35
Truss rod cover, Gibson 3 ply, antiqued $15
Set up, [blah, blah ,blah--read the bottom of one of their ads for all the standard details] $50
Restring $15
Total cost $200, removed from my check along w/their standard 20% consignment fee.
I emailed and vehemently protested the removing of original parts which were substituted w/repro parts [Joe claims the pickguard was already a repro] and I also said I have never heard of any dealer removing original parts.
I was then told that they were removed because "nobody likes those parts"
Nothing was done on their end.
fast forward 2+ yrs and this thread was started by forum member Jazznote asking for opinions of archtop.com
I posted my experience and then last week Joe finally agreed to send me the $200.
He now claims "at that time your guitar was sold our volume of business was so heavy that our communications weren't quite as good as we would have liked. So please accept our apology, and our refund for all labor and materials used on your guitar, as our gift to you."
To be clear, this was not a "gift", it was money that I should have received @ the time of the sale.
Unfortunately it took negative posts in a public forum for action to be taken.
I'm posting the end result as Joe encouraged me to do so once I received the check.
The matter is now closed as far as I'm concerned.
-
Right there in bold is the problem: it took a LONG time and the BIG GUNS of bad publicity pointed at his head for JV to come around to doing the right thing. But, even then, he does the right thing in the wrong way, calling the rightful refund "a gift." Originally Posted by wintermoon
Not professional at all, IMHO.
It's nice that these two cases (Vinny's & wintermoon's) got resolved. We all like happy endings. But the time and effort it took for such a resolution to come about should act as a cautionary tale to consumers like us.
Also, I'd hate to think of the plight of those, if any, who do not read these forums, but have had bad experiences. Their cases may most likely go unresolved.Last edited by kkfan; 01-11-2016 at 08:40 PM.
-
I find GSI to be solid on this point, but then many of their instruments are expensive, and perhaps historic. And they're classical. Different standards? Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
How often do you see any dealer that takes large up close shots, especially those that highlight a guitars problem areas? I applaud those that do, but I don't come across them often. A distant guitar photo reveals nothing but a shadow of the guitar a prospective buyer is buying...what's the point, when the buyer already knows what that guitar looks like from a distance. Where's the beef?
-
OK,
JV made it right with Vinny and Wintermoon long after the fact. Better late than never I suppose. I am guessing that if Vinny or Wintermoon sued JV at the time of the bad transaction, they might well have prevailed, but prosecuting a small claims case long distance is a difficult chore at best.
And therein is the danger. If you do business with a dealer who is a long distance from you, make sure they have a sterling reputation, or you may take a hit.
I have always sold my guitars either by myself (newspaper ads in the old days, EBay and Craigslist these days) or consigned them in a local music store (I have not actually done that in 30 years). I have bought guitars from dealers and private sellers and have only been disappointed once (I ended up reselling that guitar, fully disclosing the flaws that were undisclosed to me and taking a $100 hit. There is risk in buying guitars sight unseen. I am no longer willing to take that risk. I have all the guitars that I ever shall need).
From what I have read on this thread and the anecdotes of friends who have bought and sold through archtop.com, I think that JV is neither the best, nor the worst dealer out there. He does provide a specialized service that may be of use to some. My advice is this: If you are going to buy a guitar through archtop.com, do some due diligence (phone call, Skype, ask for detailed pictures etc.) and be prepared to lose shipping both ways if you do not like the guitar. If you are going to sell a guitar through archtop.com, talk to JV beforehand about the condition, originality etc. and be prepared to lose shipping both ways if either, a) he cannot get your price or b) he thinks it needs work/upgrades that you do not (make sure to set parameters in writing about this detail before send your guitar to him).
And FWIW, I have given my wife a list of dealers to consider using to sell my guitars in the event of an untimely demise. Archtop.com is on that list.....
-
Marco, you ain't going anywhere. God forbid.
Joe D
-
Oh .... great idea! I've been wondering for a while how my guitars would do in such a case. need to take this as an advice ..... Originally Posted by Stringswinger
-
I bought my very first L5 (labeled in the Gruhn catalog as excellent condition) in '82 from George Gruhn. When it arrived it was impossible to set the action to a comfortably playable level and i needed to have it repaired in Gary Levinson's workshop in Basel Switzerland. The neck had to be reset, as it had not been fit properly and it showed a quite extreme torsion warp. Gruhn stated that this was due to a fault in his inspection system and finally refunded me with a check which covered the repair, but of course the market value of the guitar had suffered. The interesting thing was that George Gruhn first wanted to give me a reduction on my next guitar that (he supposed) i would by from him. He got angry when i refused and insisted on a check which i could convert to cash. I had to put some pressure like sending a readers letter about the incident to guitar player magazine where he had a column at the time. Of course this letter never got published in the magasin. However, even now, more than thirty years later i would not trust him enough to order a guitar again.
It is time ALL sellers become aware that they can't do unprofessional business without risking that they lose potential customers as nowadays word can spread easily amongst us!
We also should not discourage "victims" to speak out!
P.S. the reason why i involved Guitar Player was because i got in business with Gruhn Guitars after seeing his ad in the magazine.Last edited by JazzNote; 01-12-2016 at 08:59 PM.
-
Agreed 100% Originally Posted by JazzNote
If the consumers don't keep the dealers in check, we stand to suffer in the end. Thank heavens for the internet where dealer malpractice can be readily exposed.
-
I have an "open in the event of my death" letter to my wife. Not planning on dying soon but I am 56 and have had cancer and some atrial fibrillation and so.... while it feels perhaps somewhat gruesome, she should not have to wonder where the insurance policies, bank accounts, investments, etc., are located and what to do about them. When my Dad died in 1996 my Mom and I had to figure out all of that for ourselves. It was a drag. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
My suggestions to her are to give one particular instrument to a certain person whom I know will appreciate, keep and use it. The rest I have suggested "post on jazzguitar.be" with asking prices because I know you all will not rip her off. I saw how you dealt with Patrick's passing and in general how we deal with each other here on the forum.
-
Out of curiosity, I bought one used guitar from a vintage 'dealer' back in the 1990s. It was a Korina "V" and the case was all beat up from passing from dealer-to-dealer and going show-to-show. That was the only time. The guitar was ok condition but for many years that was the most expensive guitar I owned (but not the most valuable).
This is fresh in my mind because after all these years I finally repaired the case with my new method involving super glue and black SEM Flexible Bumper paint.
With the economic erosion of my profession over the last 15 years, I steer clear of dealers today.
-
My wife has been instructed to have me stuffed and display me with all my guitars in the study/converted guest bedroom. Originally Posted by JazzNote
-
Maybe she can hang you from one of those Hercules stands that is safe for nitro.
-
Stuffed? Will that be cock up or cock down?
-
Only time when one can claim to be well-hung... Originally Posted by Bebop Tom
-
Better make that cock up.
-
It was the Danish philosopher Soren Kirkegaard who said, "It is better to be well hung than ill wed." I think he was talking about something else...
-
Yes, Kirkegaard was deep, often misantropic - and witty at the same time. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
OT:
Speaking of Kirkegaard, in one of his works he told a little story (my translation from my memory): "In a theater a fire started backstage. The clown rushed in to tell the audience about the fire and ask them to leave immediately. They laughed. He again asked them to leave. They laughed. He got down on his knees, crying, and begged them them leave. They laughed even louder. Then the burning roof fell in and all died. That's the way I imagine the world will go under: In a roar of laughter, as people think it's a joke."
-
Or Paul Desmond's idea: Of Vogue fashion models, he said, "Sometimes they go around with guys who are scuffling -- for a while. But usually they end up marrying some cat with a factory. This is the way the world ends, not with a whim but a banker."
-
"...This is the way the world ends, not with a whim but a banker."
Ha - Paul Desmond knew his T.S. Eliot...
-
Being Danish, he was probably talking about a side of beef. I don't know about the other half of it. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
-
I'm not so sure of that, Jabber. Given the absense of frigidaires and given the general horrible hygiejnic conditions in Copenhagen at Kirkegaards time, the consequenses of eating a "well hung" beef may well have been the same as being hung by the neck. For safety reasons, most people boiled their meat for hours at that time. Also, most everyday meat was either smoked or salted. Frying was only used by rich people who could get supplies of meat which was guarantied to be fresh. Ordinary people only got fresh meat at Christmas when their pork was slaughtered. I think the concept of a well hung red and tender beef is a later phenomenon. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
Last edited by oldane; 01-14-2016 at 11:43 AM.
-
But Lurpak butter is pretty damn good! So, Danish dairy cows all the way.
Reply With Quote
What Ear plugs for hearing protection in loud...
Today, 05:23 AM in From The Bandstand