Using a Gibson Les Paul for Jazz

[guavajelly]

Does anybody know which Les Paul Standard models were chambered?

[Lionelsax]

Gibson Les Paul 101 | My Les Paul Forum

I didn't know that ! Thanks !

[st.bede]

Gibson Les Paul 101 | My Les Paul Forum

My old stomping grounds forum. I just could not dig the change that included advertising, so I basic’s left. However there are a lot of very knowledgeable and helpful people there. It is a biggish forum. I do miss some of the people.

[garybaldy]

My old stomping grounds forum. I just could not dig the change that included advertising, so I basic’s left. However there are a lot of very knowledgeable and helpful people there. It is a biggish forum. I do miss some of the people.

I followed MLP a lot until I found JGOL. Posted on there that i was now mostly on JGOL and the post was removed!!

[st.bede]

I followed MLP a lot until I found JGOL. Posted on there that i was now mostly on JGOL and the post was removed!!

I do not think that would have happened at the time I was around. Things seemed pretty mellow except for the “backpage”. I guess some things changed. I just popped in there and I barely recognized any of the members names… it has been a number of years.

[pdfiddler]

Most of the forums are that way about mentioning other forums. It's in the rule book.

[st.bede]

Most of the forums are that way about mentioning other forums. It's in the rule book.

I know form personal experience that was not a problem at the time I was there. I am not there now, I am here. The advertisement started to bother me. The same thing, I do not hang out on other forums. We create the content. How that becomes monetized tends to be problematic in the internet-land.

(I barely watch youtube anymore. I grab my sources, including the people I know doing what I am doing. It is only after I have given up on figuring things out myself, that I will watch a vid. I do not watch any vids for fun anymore. I also remember when cable TV had no commercials. That is how things go. Eventually the internet will bother me so much, I will not use it except for work and school. As strange as it is, there was a way of doing things before the internet. The internet claims to open up our world, but that claim is in part hyperbolic. All the conversations I have here for example I did in person before. That is the way things were. I bet if you are checking out a guitar at GC, and a person asked you a question you would answer, and maybe even offer lessons. That is they way humans learn best. That is who we are).

[floatingpickup]

I have a 2010 Les Paul Studio. It’s chambered, so it is nice and light and the ‘59 neck shape also suits me. I have tried different strings on it and I have settled on D’Addario XL 11-49 for my style of playing. I have owned the guitar for a few years but never played it on a gig. I am going to be playing in a very crowded restaurant on NYE, so I would like to take the Les Paul rather than one of my archtops. I have been fooling around with the setup at home, and I find it difficult to get a clean sound out of the original Gibson 490R pickup. That seems strange to me, because I used to have a Gibson Herb Ellis with a 490R and it sounded great. Recently, I tried adjusting the pickup height lower and that seemed to help, but it’s still not as clean as I would like. I am not big on “modding” guitars. If a guitar doesn’t work for me, I would normally just sell it and look for something else that does. The problem is, I really like the size and playability of this guitar and I would enjoy using it more. Has anyone else experienced this with a Les Paul?
Keith

[st.bede]

I am not a fan if gib PUs.They are not bad by any means, and I do favor some over others but all of my 5 Gibson have their PUs replaced. I think I did most of the replacing myself, even though my soldering skills are not good. I might not buy a guitar at a certain price if I had to replace a PU: guitar x price plus 250 to 350 more for PUs. However if I really like a guitar, wisely changing the PUs can really fine tune a guitar. I think I know the guitar model you have and it is an excellent one. I never found one for a good price, and I felt to get that particular model of LPs to work for me would of taken a PU swap. I played about 4 different ones and felt the same about all of them.

[Herbie]

I have a 2010 Les Paul Studio. It’s chambered, so it is nice and light and the ‘59 neck shape also suits me. I have tried different strings on it and I have settled on D’Addario XL 11-49 for my style of playing. I have owned the guitar for a few years but never played it on a gig. I am going to be playing in a very crowded restaurant on NYE, so I would like to take the Les Paul rather than one of my archtops. I have been fooling around with the setup at home, and I find it difficult to get a clean sound out of the original Gibson 490R pickup. That seems strange to me, because I used to have a Gibson Herb Ellis with a 490R and it sounded great. Recently, I tried adjusting the pickup height lower and that seemed to help, but it’s still not as clean as I would like. I am not big on “modding” guitars. If a guitar doesn’t work for me, I would normally just sell it and look for something else that does. The problem is, I really like the size and playability of this guitar and I would enjoy using it more. Has anyone else experienced this with a Les Paul?
Keith

Usually the Gibson humbucker sounds bad – clean and dirty – when the guitar has 300 kohm pots. Humbuckers need 500 kohm pots to ”open up”. And many players like the ’50s wiring better than modern wiring.

Changing these is cheaper than swapping pickups. And with the wrong pots every pickup sounds bad. Trust me, I tried it!

[floatingpickup]

Usually the Gibson humbucker sounds bad – clean and dirty – when the guitar has 300 kohm pots. Humbuckers need 500 kohm pots to ”open up”. And many players like the ’50s wiring better than modern wiring.

Changing these is cheaper than swapping pickups. And with the wrong pots every pickup sounds bad. Trust me, I tried it!

Maybe that’s what it needs. I have had all kinds of Gibson pickups in other guitars that sounded just fine to me, so maybe the pots are the issue in this particular guitar.
Keith

[Stringswinger]

Maybe that’s what it needs. I have had all kinds of Gibson pickups in other guitars that sounded just fine to me, so maybe the pots are the issue in this particular guitar.
Keith

I have a 2017 Gibson Les Paul Studio and the 490R Pickup sounds great for jazz. The cleans are quite clean. It sounds like something is wrong with your guitar. Maybe it is the pots, maybe it is a short in the wiring (or the pickup) or maybe something else. Have a tech you trust check it out.

[st.bede]

Just double checking, there were es style LPs that had MHS PUs. I loved those but found the PUs to be muddy. I was sure a PU switch would make a huge difference, but (as mentioned above) paying x amount and then paying another chunk of money was just not acceptable to me.

[bluejaybill]

I don’t know the 490R, but I have a ‘94 R8 that I can get credible jazz sounds out of with the stock pickups, but just to play it safe I threw a pair of real PAF’s in it.?

Needless to say they sound great for jazz or anything else, but I did do a jazz gig with the original pickups and they were fine. I agree that most Gibson pickups can be made usable for jazz, except distortion types, definitely check the pot values. And ‘50’s wiring scheme made a huge difference if you get a chance. I’d also say New Years is coming up quick, don’t stress over it too much! Oh, and an EQ pedal will fix almost any problem!

[floatingpickup]

I don’t know the 490R, but I have a ‘94 R8 that I can get credible jazz sounds out of with the stock pickups, but just to play it safe I threw a pair of real PAF’s in it.?

Needless to say they sound great for jazz or anything else, but I did do a jazz gig with the original pickups and they were fine. I agree that most Gibson pickups can be made usable for jazz, except distortion types, definitely check the pot values. And ‘50’s wiring scheme made a huge difference if you get a chance. I’d also say New Years is coming up quick, don’t stress over it too much! Oh, and an EQ pedal will fix almost any problem!

I’m sure your R8 with paf’s sounds wonderful. I don’t think this budget Gibson deserves such expensive pickups though. I don’t have time to make any changes to the guitar before the NYE gig. I’ll play around with different amps and different settings, and if I can’t get things right I’ll just take one of my archtops this time.
Keith

[floatingpickup]

I have a 2017 Gibson Les Paul Studio and the 490R Pickup sounds great for jazz. The cleans are quite clean. It sounds like something is wrong with your guitar. Maybe it is the pots, maybe it is a short in the wiring (or the pickup) or maybe something else. Have a tech you trust check it out.

Thats interesting. I really expected this guitar should sound nice and clean. My past experience with a 490R pickup was very satisfying, so I don’t understand why this sounds different. I’ll check things out again and see if I can figure out what’s going on. If I can’t solve it, I’ll look for a tech who can assess it.
thanks,
Keith

[floatingpickup]

Just double checking, there were es style LPs that had MHS PUs. I loved those but found the PUs to be muddy. I was sure a PU switch would make a huge difference, but (as mentioned above) paying x amount and then paying another chunk of money was just not acceptable to me.

I took a look at the pickups and I’m pretty sure they are a 490R and a 498T. I don’t really think it makes sense to spend a bunch of money to put new pickups in a relatively inexpensive guitar.
Keith

[bluejaybill]

I’m sure your R8 with paf’s sounds wonderful. I don’t think this budget Gibson deserves such expensive pickups though. I don’t have time to make any changes to the guitar before the NYE gig. I’ll play around with different amps and different settings, and if I can’t get things right I’ll just take one of my archtops this time.
Keith

Sorry, didn’t mean to suggest that high end pickups are the answer, and sorry if my comment came off as bragging! I was fortunate to get those many years ago when they were still cheap. My main point was just that LP’s should be workable for jazz with some tweaking. Have a great gig and Happy New Year!

[st.bede]

(I am going to write some controversial stuff. I know that my knowledge is limited and my experiences can not necessarily be extrapolated… please do not flame me. I respect your right to have your beliefs. I tend to think there is a lot of grey out there: we both could be correct but just looking a different elements).

I am sorry, I was thinking about the LPs with the F holes.

I have put good PUs in a cheap guitar with excellent results: Bartillione’s into a Steinberger Spirit. That is kinda a special case.

Even though your LP is not expensive, it is still could be a very useable guitar. Some of the lower priced LPs floating around about 10 years ago were pretty solid. (However, if it is muffled on its own that could be a non-fixable issue).

(Controversial): The difference between an high end LP, and a low end, (outside of appearance), is not always clear to me. I would consider all my LPs to be lower-ish end ones: Studios, and a Classic. They all play really well. One of the studios is probably the most solid LP I have ever played. I personally feel that LPs take PU changes better the some lower end Fenders.

(More controversy): If you ever played 50s/60s Fender and Gibsons, in my humble experience, they age differently. Different construction. The old LPs felt like the had become more solidified, where as the old Strats, felt like they had become less together. These are very subjective experiences.

I guess what I am trying to say a good sounding and playing LP is not based on money always. (Not sure if that is too controversial because you can end up with a less the perfect trad pro… right? but if your experiences are different then mine, I respect that).

If the guitar does not sound right acoustically or you feel weird putting in expensive PUs… find a decent price on a studio. That way you can always enjoy your LP. (Also when no jazz cats are looking you can do the whole Jimmy Page/Allman bros thing… fun is fun right).

[floatingpickup]

Sorry, didn’t mean to suggest that high end pickups are the answer, and sorry if my comment came off as bragging! I was fortunate to get those many years ago when they were still cheap. My main point was just that LP’s should be workable for jazz with some tweaking. Have a great gig and Happy New Year!

Bill: I didn’t take it that way at all. I had a laugh about it…the thought of paying more for a single pickup than the value of the entire guitar. I have a 175 with real paf’s and like you, I bought that guitar before paf’s were as expensive as they are today. That guitar sounds better than all of my others. Those pickups are magic. Having said that, I have had ‘57 Classics that sounded close.
Keith

[floatingpickup]

(I am going to write some controversial stuff. I know that my knowledge is limited and my experiences can not necessarily be extrapolated… please do not flame me. I respect your right to have your beliefs. I tend to think there is a lot of grey out there: we both could be correct but just looking a different elements).

I am sorry, I was thinking about the LPs with the F holes.

I have put good PUs in a cheap guitar with excellent results: Bartillione’s into a Steinberger Spirit. That is kinda a special case.

Even though your LP is not expensive, it is still could be a very useable guitar. Some of the lower priced LPs floating around about 10 years ago were pretty solid. (However, if it is muffled on its own that could be a non-fixable issue).

(Controversial): The difference between an high end LP, and a low end, (outside of appearance), is not always clear to me. I would consider all my LPs to be lower-ish end ones: Studios, and a Classic. They all play really well. One of the studios is probably the most solid LP I have ever played. I personally feel that LPs take PU changes better the some lower end Fenders.

(More controversy): If you ever played 50s/60s Fender and Gibsons, in my humble experience, they age differently. Different construction. The old LPs felt like the had become more solidified, where as the old Strats, felt like they had become less together. These are very subjective experiences.

I guess what I am trying to say a good sounding and playing LP is not based on money always. (Not sure if that is too controversial because you can end up with a less the perfect trad pro… right? but if your experiences are different then mine, I respect that).

If the guitar does not sound right acoustically or you feel weird putting in expensive PUs… find a decent price on a studio. That way you can always enjoy your LP. (Also when no jazz cats are looking you can do the whole Jimmy Page/Allman bros thing… fun is fun right).

Thanks for those insights. Over the last few days, I have spent quite a bit of time playing, tweaking, and analyzing my Les Paul Studio. It is a very nicely built guitar, with a chambered mahogany body and a maple top with a bit of flame showing through the glossy wine red finish. It has a nice, chunky mahogany neck with absolutely perfect action and the reduced body weight is extremely comfortable. Unplugged, it is very lively with loads of sustain. All of this makes it a really nice American-made Les Paul for not a lot of money. I measured the resistance of the pickups and they are exactly on spec for 490/498 pickups. I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing wrong with the guitar - it’s just that I am not used to playing Les Pauls. When I dig in and pick a little harder on my archtops, they just get a little louder. When I do the same with the Les Paul, it brings out a bit of a gritty edge, which would be perfect for playing blues or rock. To get a sound that is more appropriate for jazz, I just need to play with a light touch and a use a little extra volume on the amp. I am sure that if I changed pots etc. it could be turned into a totally clean machine, but maybe that isn’t the best thing to do. The guitar is actually quite versatile the way it is, as long as I am mindful of the way it responds to my touch. It would have been the perfect guitar back in the days when I played in the bars. I still haven’t decided if I’ll take it out on my NYE gig. If I’m not totally happy with the sound, it could be a long night. It might be better to wait until I play somewhere that has more room so I can take two guitars. This restaurant leaves me very little room to set up and play a long solo gig. Thanks to everyone for your help.
Keith

[bluejaybill]

Bill: I didn’t take it that way at all. I had a laugh about it…the thought of paying more for a single pickup than the value of the entire guitar. I have a 175 with real paf’s and like you, I bought that guitar before paf’s were as expensive as they are today. That guitar sounds better than all of my others. Those pickups are magic. Having said that, I have had ‘57 Classics that sounded close.
Keith

Yes, I definitely think you can get very close with some of the after market pickups! Oh- and those pickups are now worth way more than my R8!

[DawgBone]

I took a look at the pickups and I’m pretty sure they are a 490R and a 498T. I don’t really think it makes sense to spend a bunch of money to put new pickups in a relatively inexpensive guitar.
Keith

I had those same pickups in an ES-333. I swapped them for used '57 classics. Looking back I would've left the 490r alone, as in my experience it was very similar, possibly superior in some ways. Gibson calls them modern classics or something like that and I think they are supposed to offer a mild increase in compression over a '57 and actually, that was my experience. It sounded killer, I only swapped hoping it would sound more killer. Wasn't really worth it. The BB King model comes equpped with 490r and 490t and that is a great sounding instrument.

The 498t on the other hand, was very hot. It actually had a gnarly bite to it that sounded really great through the Marshall I was using at the time. But it was too hot for my purposes for mild OD but loud blues. It's more like a rock guitar pickup, and a good one. I have a Duncan Sh-14 Custom 5 in the bridge of my Edwards E-SA currently and it is also too hot so I'm swapping for a '57 as soon as I get the gold cover (heh heh). I wouldn't hesitate to ditch the 498t again but it is a quality pickup. I just find that the 498t and Sh-14 both require more fiddling when mixing the two pickups to dial it in whereas two '57's is a much quicker adjustment with more range of fine tuning available when both pickups are on. I usually roll the tone on the bridge way back to get that kind of nasally "junky radio" tone as I call it. Bridge alone with amp volume and a good '57 give me a nice honk that I love quite a bit.

[floatingpickup]

I had those same pickups in an ES-333. I swapped them for used '57 classics. Looking back I would've left the 490r alone, as in my experience it was very similar, possibly superior in some ways. Gibson calls them modern classics or something like that and I think they are supposed to offer a mild increase in compression over a '57 and actually, that was my experience. It sounded killer, I only swapped hoping it would sound more killer. Wasn't really worth it. The BB King model comes equpped with 490r and 490t and that is a great sounding instrument.

The 498t on the other hand, was very hot. It actually had a gnarly bite to it that sounded really great through the Marshall I was using at the time. But it was too hot for my purposes for mild OD but loud blues. It's more like a rock guitar pickup, and a good one. I have a Duncan Sh-14 Custom 5 in the bridge of my Edwards E-SA currently and it is also too hot so I'm swapping for a '57 as soon as I get the gold cover (heh heh). I wouldn't hesitate to ditch the 498t again but it is a quality pickup. I just find that the 498t and Sh-14 both require more fiddling when mixing the two pickups to dial it in whereas two '57's is a much quicker adjustment with more range of fine tuning available when both pickups are on. I usually roll the tone on the bridge way back to get that kind of nasally "junky radio" tone as I call it. Bridge alone with amp volume and a good '57 give me a nice honk that I love quite a bit.

Yes, the resistance on the 498T is about 14-15k ohms. Pretty hot pickup, but I don’t see myself using the bridge pickup very often, if at all. The 490R is a little more in the normal range of around 7-8k ohms.
Keith

[Perdido]