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Hello jazz fellows,
Doug Raney's sound on his first albums have always impressed me. Except Doug's hands and chops, does anyone know the gear, i.e. guitar and amp he was using at that time.
I'm refering to the albums he published for SteepleChase records in the late 70's, early 80's (Introducing DG, Cuttin' Lose, etc.).
There is this picture on the cover of his first album. Seems to be an ES-350 with its original P90. Any clue someone ?.
Thanks and cheers.
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12-20-2015 10:13 AM
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I lived in Copenhagen for many years, where Doug Raney has also lived since the 1970s, and I have had the good fortune to see and hear him many times over the years. He is indeed a very fine guitarist.
Yes, it's an ES350 with a P90 (with metal cover) on those first recordings. It was actually a 2 PU model with the bridge PU removed. If you look closely at the photo, you may be able to see the empty hole in the top. It was stripped of finish and roadworn to say the least. Later, I have seen him with an old Gretsch with cats eyes holes fitted with a Shadow floating PU, partly held in place with gaffa tape. Still later I saw him with a sunburst L7/350 with a CC PU, which soon got replaced with a metal covered P90 (if it was the same guitar, I was never close enough to see for sure) . After his father died, he was seen with the Höfner guitar he inherited. A few years ago he did a number of Copenhagen gigs with an Ibanez Artcore. I have seem him use Cube amps, but he may have used what was available, and I have no idea which amp he used on those Steeplechase records. As far as I have been able to see, he has always used medium/heavy flatwound strings. He never seemed to be interested in flashy gear - and the income from being a jazz musician in Denmark wouldn't have allowed that either.
Sadly, due to illness, he has been inactive for long periods in later years.Last edited by oldane; 12-20-2015 at 11:28 AM.
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Here he has an Ibanez GB 20 I think, with a P90. The bigger GB model also played by Sonny Greenwich.
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From what I have read (e.g., on his brother Jon's site, IIRC) Doug played an L-7 cutaway with a pickup installed in his early years. I think that is what this is. There are a number of pictures of him with other guitars, though.
Originally Posted by Fred Archtop
Hello jazz fellows,
Doug Raney's sound on his first albums have always impressed me. Except Doug's hands and chops, does anyone know the gear, i.e. guitar and amp he was using at that time.
I'm refering to the albums he published for SteepleChase records in the late 70's, early 80's (Introducing DG, Cuttin' Lose, etc.).
There is this picture on the cover of his first album. Seems to be an ES-350 with its original P90. Any clue someone ?.
Thanks and cheers.
I heard- again on the interwebs- that Doug was in very poor health recently, hope he is doing better. He is an outstanding talent on he guitar!
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Yes. You just want to pull for these folks who gifted you the wonderful gift of great music. I hope he has found some sort of happiness and contentment in Denmark that he maybe could not find here in is homeland, the USA.
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doug raney is/was fantastically gifted player...that grew up playing hardcore jazz in the "rock" era when that reaped little reward..today he'd be at the forefront...
great story-
Doug's favorite story is about a gig Jimmy played at a place called Bradley's (nyc), in comes Dexter Gordon, and just starts staring at Jimmy...after a couple of songs he walks up and says "you sound just like Doug!" and both men crack up.
jon raneys site is a treasure for brother doug and father jim tales...and forum member dutchboppers blog has some nice doug stuff as well
an absolute fave
cheers
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I think I've read several comments on the pictured guitar over the years, but right now I'm a little too pushed for time to post links to specific sources, however, the jonraney website, and the Glen Hodges thesis on Jimmy Raney are the most likely sources for the info,
AFAIK, the pictured guitar is an L7, and I'm sure I read it was Doug that stripped the finish ( I also read he was involved at one time in furniture restoration, and the finish removal was kind of related to that process). According to Jon Raney, that is also the same guitar that Jimmy Raney used on the "Live In Tokyo" recording. From various pics , you can see the guitar (at that time) had a non-stock, lighter weight trapeze tailpiece (a la ES-330), and also that the vol/tone knobs are not located exactly in the normal positions, so this might suggest the L7 was originally an acoustic model, and the P90 was retro fitted.
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I hope he's doing better, I really enjoyed those duet albums with his Father.
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That's also the story I've been told. A luthier here in Copenhagen, who did some repair work on my old Byrdland some years ago, also did some work on Doug's L7, but told me that it eventually fell apart (long time ago!). Originally Posted by pubylakeg
Incidentally, what appears to have been Jimmy Raney's Hofner Atilla Zoller/La Bella from the 1980s has just been up for sale here in Copenhagen, for DKK 15,000, but seems to have gone now. In 1995, just after Jimmy's death, I saw Doug at a café, where he played a duo-gig on that guitar. He said he had just inherited from his dad.
I saw Doug in the summer of 2013, at what I think must have been his last public performance. Here he played a Chinese-built Ibanez then. (His tone was still awesome...)Last edited by Nils; 12-22-2015 at 11:17 AM.
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...by the way: As for amps, he's been playing Polytones (Minibrutes) all along, though when I saw him a couple of years ago he was playing through one of these AER acoustic amps.
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The reason I figured that guitar was an ES350 is that it had an empty hole for a bridge PU and while it has been quite common to retrofit neck PUs on acoustic archtops, dual PU retrofits are rarely seen.
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You're absolutely correct Oldane, my post above was merely intended to offer some info on the guitar(s), provided by sources close to Doug & Jimmy Raney. Originally Posted by oldane
As you've stated above, the guitar was at some point fitted with a treble pickup.
I'm also truly saddened to read that JR's Hofner may no longer be in the ownership of either of the Raney brothers.
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Hello,
Any clue on what guitar Doug used during this trio session with Chet Baker and NHOP for Steeplechase records ? Listening to these 3 great albums he made with Chet and NHOP, it doesn't sound like he used a semi-hollow for these registrations. But I might be wrong.
Thanks and cheers.
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Hmmm, that doesn't look like a semi-hollow...more of a shallower depth hollow...Byrdland?
Whatever he used, his tone is sublime on those records...as is his playing.
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doug same era..same high top cons...back of stolen moments lp
maybe playin guitar jimmy has in pic, on chet session...similar coloring...natural?
another good one
cheers
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Slightly off topic, but could you guys suggest some "definitive" or "must listen" recordings by Doug and his Father?
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aforementioned stolen moments
two masters..and billy hart on drums!!
ditto tho..all good!
cheers
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Couldn't agree more. They are all histortical pieces of jazz guitar. Incredible interplay between father and son. "I Should Care" album is the one I prefer with a wonderful selected playlist and Raney's (father) originals. But there are also : Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
There's also an album by Jimmy Raney and Al Haig from the mid 70s where Doug appeared for the first time on a track.
CheersLast edited by Fred Archtop; 01-13-2016 at 07:26 AM.
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+1 to all of the above. The Nardis album is very beautiful, and by the way, Stolen Moments and Duets have been collected on the twofer CD called Guitar Moments - more bang for your buck!
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Here's Jimmy and Doug playing, "I Should Care." Originally Posted by Fred Archtop
Couldn't agree more. They are all histortical pieces of jazz guitar. Incredible interplay between father and son. "I Should Care" album is the one I prefer with a wonderful selected playlist and Raney's (father) originals. But there are also :
There's also an album by Jimmy Raney and Al Haig from the mid 70s where Doug appeared for the first time on a track.
Cheers
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Do you mean individually, or specifically recordings that they made together ? Originally Posted by JazzMuzak
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I actually meant individually Originally Posted by pubylakeg
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I think scrolling through this thread will definitely identify some major recordings by each of these great players.
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always dig the winter 1957 recording..the street swingers..a bob brookmeyer credited date, with jimmy raney and jim hall!!..(they were good friends..at one point even sharing a gibson amp for their individual sessions..which i'd imagine was halls gibson ga-50)...cut at coastal studios nyc (40th st between 5 & 6th)
cover shows them standing outside studio in december snow...hall with his single p90 pup es175 and raney with his es 150..which he used until it was stolen/lost in an nyc cab
cheers
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With apologies to Fredarchtop, hoping this isn't considered off topic. Originally Posted by JazzMuzak
As the guys above stated "it's all good" but if you're putting a toe in the water, I'd like to offer some recommendations based purely on personal opinion.
Concerning Jimmy's 50's recorded output, JR was on record as stating he didn't feel any of his records really captured what he was really capable of.
I'd have to say that his live recording under Stan Getz's leadership "Live At Storyville" is probably the best way to hear Jimmy's early bebop. I think having several great players in the group,(Getz, Raney, Al Haig) raises the bar for everybody, and you can really hear what JR was capable of live. Recording quality is ok for the era as well.
http://www.amazon.com/At-Storyville-...etz+storyville
Getz also played on JR's first studio session as leader, which produced 4 cuts.
http://www.amazon.com/Early-Stan-Get...rds=early+stan
Again, JR had reservations about this session, but I'd consider it essential.
As the 50's progressed, JR's playing took on a distinctly cool overtone, which I consider quite different to his earlier style, the best of this I think is contained on his album "Jimmy Raney featuring Bob Brookmeyer" which is available, combined with another one of JR's best "In Three Attitudes"
http://www.amazon.com/Jimmy-Raney-At...bob+brookmeyer
There are also 2 albums JR recorded in 1954, "Visits Paris" vols 1 & 2. These are quite different, with the first being a bit of a conundrum. The supporting personel is listed as Sonny Clark (p), Red Mitchell(b) and Bobby White (d), who were all on tour with Leonard Feather's Jazz Club USA package, backing Billie Holliday, at the time. However, Jimmy's son, Jon Raney, has stated that he doesn't think these are actually the musicians on the record. The entire record seems to have a really stiff, 2 beat, "bounce" feel, that doesn't seem consistent with the stature of the players, and Jimmy seems to suffer from a lack of continuity at some points. It's a strange record, but an important one. Vol 2 has a much more swinging feel, but Jimmy takes shorter solos on it.
Of Jimmy's later output, "Live In Tokyo" is universally regarded as one of Jimmy's greatest records.
http://www.amazon.com/Live-Tokyo-197...+live+in+tokyo
As stated above, Jimmy's 70's- 90's output was generally of a uniformly high quality, particularly on his dates for the Steeplechase and Criss Cross labels. Any of his recordings on these labels would be a rewarding purchase.
Regarding Doug's output, once again, it's of a consistently high standard. My own recommendations would begin with his live and studio recordings under Chet Baker's leadership, those are "The Touch Of Your Lips" "Someday My Prince Will Come" "Daybreak" "This Is Always" and "I Remember You / The Legacy Vol 2".
Of those recordings under his own name, "Blues On A Par" is a personal favourite, as are "Back In New York",
"Raney '96" and "You Go To My Head".Last edited by pubylakeg; 01-19-2016 at 07:33 PM.
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