Ibanez PM120

**Bluedawg** · 09-23-2016, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by agentsmith

you're not going to find a tal farlow for $1250-$1500, the typical used price for a PM-120. I like this better than any of the Tals I had by the way. And the construction, build quality and neck/action/playability blows away the Tal. No comparison.

I'll have to keep an eye out for a used one ... when my finances are back in order

I was thinking of the price for a new PM .....

I do have a Chinese Metheny guitar ... a PM35NT IIRC ... sounds great in the right amp ... but doesn't really hold up well against my Gibsons

**jim777** · 10-17-2016, 04:52 PM

I think my next guitar is an LR-10 or a PM-120. Maybe both if I can swing it

**agentsmith** · 10-17-2016, 08:46 PM

It's a great guitar. For archtops, I am down to my '63 Barney Kessel, my '89 175 and the PM-120. I don't feel like I'm giving up anything by playing the PM120. It's not as big sounding as its bigger brothers but sounds great.

Only played an LR-10 once but the PM120 is quite a bit different instrument. Much more of 175ish guitar whereas the LR-10 is more like a 335.

Incidentally, I like my 339 much better than any of the japanese semis...

**feral guitar** · 11-15-2016, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Bluedawg

I'll have to keep an eye out for a used one ... when my finances are back in order

I was thinking of the price for a new PM .....

I do have a Chinese Metheny guitar ... a PM35NT IIRC ... sounds great in the right amp ... but doesn't really hold up well against my Gibsons

there is a used pM120 at Rainbow on the floor. that neck! its priced kind of high at $1895.

joaopaz · 11-17-2016, 08:09 PM

..here's a proud owner of an..

AS-153, AFJ-95, AR-325 and also an ol' Rocket Roll (Flying V) from the 70s.

I couldn't agree more with the comments made above about Ibanez. They're stable, usually super comfortable to play (the AR-325 is neck heavy), great sounding with an overall craftsmanship that's also usually head and shoulders above others in the same price range.

One other thing noteworthy is that I believe they now offer the very same pickup - Super 58 - across (almost) their entire range. It's the same pickup wether you're paying 400 or 2400. I think it's cool and shows respect for their gear abd for the guys who maybe can't afford the highest models.

**jim777** · 11-17-2016, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by joaopaz

One other thing noteworthy is that I believe they now offer the very same pickup - Super 58 - across (almost) their entire range. It's the same pickup wether you're paying 400 or 2400. I think it's cool and shows respect for their gear abd for the guys who maybe can't afford the highest models.

I've got a large number of Ibbys myself, and am a moderator on an Ibanez forum as well

The pickups you see on the less expensive Ibbys aren't the Super 58's, but Super 58 Customs. They are decent pickups, but not the same.

joaopaz · 11-18-2016, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by jim777

I've got a large number of Ibbys myself, and am a moderator on an Ibanez forum as well

The pickups you see on the less expensive Ibbys aren't the Super 58's, but Super 58 Customs. They are decent pickups, but not the same.

You're right, I got carried away

I knew the ACH series but I thought they were fewer. I was just looking and also saw the "classic elite" (hadn't notice these before) and also the Super 58 *custom* - do you know how these differ from the regular 58s?

Still the 58 starts with the AF95 which, below 600 Eur, is not a bad thing!

**KirkP** · 11-19-2016, 04:15 AM

After researching several forums about the differences between Super 58 and "Super 58 Custom" (A.K.A. "Custom 58") pickups there seemed to be so much uncertainty I began to wonder if anyone at Ibanez even knows. I think both have AlNiCo magnets, but different types of AlNiCo. If anyone knows with certainty, chime in.

**newsense** · 11-19-2016, 05:54 AM

The Super 58 Custom is not specified on any 2016 Ibanez hollowbodies. Irrespective of provenance, guitars from the Artcore Expressionist series upwards are specified as having Super 58 pickups, including the AF95 through to the AF200. However, that is not saying that all Super 58s are the same and that those two guitars have exactly the same pickup. If you look at the Ibanez parts list there are several pickups described as Super 58, but with different part numbers.

I believe the Classic Elite is the new name for the old ACH.

Now, (I've proposed this before) it may be that Ibanez decided that explicitly selling 2 versions of the Super 58 was not good marketing practice; i.e. those buyers potentially in the market for an Expressionist might make an alternative (non-Ibanez) choice, believing the Super 58 Custom to be inferior to the Super 58 (which it possibly was). So they have eradicated the Custom part of the name. Who really knows, outside Ibanez, whether, inside the cover, the Super 58 on an Expressionist is the same as the old Custom, or is really the same as the Super 58 on the MIJ AF200 ?

**GNAPPI** · 11-19-2016, 08:49 AM

An Ibanez WAY BETTER than a Tal Farlow?

I used to say "now I have heard everything" not knowing what I was saying but now I truly do.

**KirkP** · 11-19-2016, 12:20 PM

I wonder if there's a way to distinguish the Super-58 from the Custom by removing the cover? If both use AlNiCo magnets it seems that would be difficult unless there are also dimensional differences. My Artcore specifies "Custom-58" and sounds fine, but I'll forever wonder if I'd like it even better with Supers.

**newsense** · 11-19-2016, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by KirkP

I wonder if there's a way to distinguish the Super-58 from the Custom by removing the cover? If both use AlNiCo magnets it seems that would be difficult unless there are also dimensional differences. My Artcore specifies "Custom-58" and sounds fine, but I'll forever wonder if I'd like it even better with Supers.

It may just be as simple as country of origin; i.e. Super 58 MIC = old Super 58 Custom, whilst MIJ Super 58 is the same as it ever was.

**Drumbler** · 11-19-2016, 01:41 PM

This thread is useless without pics so...

Ibanez PM120-k4xfyhm6d12gwcxibanv-jpg

**EriktK** · 03-25-2017, 03:06 AM

I play jazz guitar for over 25 years in various groups and settings. I traded in archtop guitars for some years and played lot's of jazz guitars.

My 2011 Ibanez PM120 is a very well made jazz guitar made from excellent vibrating tone woods and hardware. Better built quality and materials then almost any Gibson I ever played. Maybe one 1960 Gibson ES-175 I once played was equal, but a bit more expensive...
Of cause these guitars don't have the 'mojo and vintage vibe' of old jazz boxes. But they are very well made, robust jazz guitars that sound and play great IMO. And you can take them to a club without extra insurance.

The quality at these MIJ Ibanez guitars seems very consistent: I had a 1999 PM100 for a few year and still regret selling it to buy a 1969 Gibson that wasn't as good after all. The feel of the PM100 and PM120 are almost identical. The balance, the neck dimensions and feel and the nice, dry acoustic tone. The PM100 just has a bit more acoustic volume to it and is a bit brighter sounding on the neck PU. But the PM120 also has a lot of hollowness to the tone and a bridge PU as well. It's hollow and still prone to feedback but less so then a full depth archtop. One extra bonus is the double cut away that make the high notes easy to reach.

I connected a cheap transducer pickup, directly to the volume pot for the bridge PU. I don't use the bridge PU anyway. It adds some nice highs to the tone that make the tone 'breathe' a little more. Without extra feedback problems of a microphone. When I accompany another player, I dial down the neck PU volume a bit and get a more acoustic sound right away. No extra knobs, no batteries or anything. And just through the guitar amp.

All in all, I'm very satisfied with the Ibanez PM120. Wether you like the looks of it, is a personal thing. But if you are looking for a great, all round jazz guitar of excellent quality, this could be it!

**EriktK** · 03-25-2017, 03:15 AM

Not really replying, but sharing my thoughts about The PM120. I recently played a new PM200 that disappointed a bit: not the same quality as the older PM100's / PM120's IMO. Lesser hardware, lesser fretwork, lesser acoustic sound in comparison. Cutting corners?

I play jazz guitar for over 25 years in various groups and settings. I traded in archtop guitars for some years and played lot's of jazz guitars.

My 2011 Ibanez PM120 is a very well made jazz guitar made from excellent vibrating tone woods and hardware. Better built quality and materials then almost any Gibson I ever played. Maybe one 1960 Gibson ES-175 I once played was equal, but a bit more expensive...
Of cause these guitars don't have the 'mojo and vintage vibe' of old jazz boxes. But they are very well made, robust jazz guitars that sound and play great IMO. And you can take them to a club without extra insurance.

The quality at these MIJ Ibanez guitars seems very consistent: I had a 1999 PM100 for a few year and still regret selling it to buy a 1969 Gibson that wasn't as good after all. The feel of the PM100 and PM120 are almost identical. The balance, the neck dimensions and feel and the nice, dry acoustic tone. The PM100 just has a bit more acoustic volume to it and is a bit brighter sounding on the neck PU. But the PM120 also has a lot of hollowness to the tone and a bridge PU as well. It's hollow and still prone to feedback but less so then a full depth archtop. One extra bonus is the double cut away that make the high notes easy to reach.

I connected a cheap transducer pickup, directly to the volume pot for the bridge PU. I don't use the bridge PU anyway. It adds some nice highs to the tone that make the tone 'breathe' a little more. Without extra feedback problems of a microphone. When I accompany another player, I dial down the neck PU volume a bit and get a more acoustic sound right away. No extra knobs, no batteries or anything. And just through the guitar amp.

All in all, I'm very satisfied with the Ibanez PM120. Wether you like the looks of it, is a personal thing. But if you are looking for a great, all round jazz guitar of excellent quality, this could be it!

**Gitfiddler** · 03-25-2017, 02:26 PM

I've always had a soft spot for the PM120, especially in that sexy black finish and tan binding. Oh man!
If it had a pickguard I'd own one.

And I also agree with Agent Smith's assessment about Ibanez (Hoshino Gaki) high quality and consistency. How do they maintain that QC in all of their Pacific factories (Japan, China, Malaysia, Korea??). All guitar companies could take a lesson from Ibanez in that regard.

**Lobomov** · 03-25-2017, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by EriktK

I had a 1999 PM100 for a few year and still regret selling it to buy a 1969 Gibson that wasn't as good after all. The feel of the PM100 and PM120 are almost identical. The balance, the neck dimensions and feel and the nice, dry acoustic tone. The PM100 just has a bit more acoustic volume to it and is a bit brighter sounding on the neck PU.

Thanks for posting. Despite being capable to make my own opinion, it is always nice to hear others with the same one. As mention earlier in this thead. I have a late 90s pm100 that is awesome. Bought it thru sheer coincidence just because it was cheap, but it's awesome.

Congrats with your PM120! ... next time I come across one of those, I'll make sure to pick it up

**EriktK** · 03-26-2017, 03:13 AM

I took the time to write this, because there should be more reviews about a really good guitar like the PM100 / PM120 despite that it's out of production. These guitars will be sold and bought second hand in decades to come. Enjoy it!

**EriktK** · 03-26-2017, 03:46 AM

As mentioned below I owned a PM100 with Super 58 and a few other MIJ Ibanez guitars like a 1980 AS200, a 1980 Ibanez JP20 and a 1989 AF200. All with Super 58 PU's. I wouldn't go into specs 'cause we'll never know exactly what's inside.

I recently bought (and sold) a new SJ300 that is made in China. The basic sound is the same but I immediately noticed the China Super 58 to be less dynamic and more dull sounding. I thought it might be the guitar so I tried a Gibson Burstbucker on the SJ300 and it delivered right away.

So IMO the Made in China Super 58 is different and IMO not quit as good as the Made in Japan versions.

**Lobomov** · 03-26-2017, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by EriktK

So IMO the Made in China Super 58 is different and IMO not quit as good as the Made in Japan versions.

My PM100 came with a pup swap and has the SD Bennedetto A6 now, which sounds great. The original pup sits in the case, so someday I might install it somewhere.

**EriktK** · 03-26-2017, 11:22 AM

Yea I think you're right. Maybe that's why they sound a little darker?

**GNAPPI** · 03-27-2017, 02:09 AM

One thing I'll say about this thread, Gibson should be ashamed that this thread exists at all.

I have a number of Gibsons, and about half as many Ibanez and in general (excluding Gibson high end models) fit and finish are superior in every way in an Ibanez.

What they do not have is Gibsons sound and collectability (read as long term value), which actually is a good thing. It keeps Ibanez affordable to more players.

**nikotro** · 08-18-2017, 04:07 AM

I have to let this beauty go:-(

Look out for it in the SALE section.

**Robertkoa** · 08-18-2017, 05:41 AM

Congrats.
I have heard really good Tones just on Demos from these....

It seems the Metheny Models have a lot of glassy Sustain compared to many archtops .

Have you noticed this ?

**TKO** · 08-18-2017, 06:02 AM

Congratulations! There's never too much Pat Metheny guitars around. The black PM-100 is still one of my solid GAS targets, but they never seem to be around anywhere near me.. at least when I have the means to get one.