Gibson Tal Farlow neck failure

**neatomic** · 12-04-2015, 06:09 PM

matt c is entirely correct...walnut is an open pore wood and literally sponged the lacquer right up..afraid to say, but potentially bigger problem then just sand and refinish at this point..gibsons got to make good on this one..sorry and good luck

cheers

**vinlander** · 12-04-2015, 07:47 PM

OMG that sucks big time, my thoughts are with you Vinny, a pity on such a gorgeous flamed neck.
I truly hope Gibson can (will) do something about it.

**Top of the Arch!** · 12-04-2015, 08:02 PM

Sorry to hear about this! Ill be watching to see if youre treated properly! Hope Gibson steps up to the plate with this, it will speak volumes about what we should expect from them. All the best! Bob

**pubylakeg** · 12-04-2015, 08:07 PM

Really bummed for you Vinny. That is a poor show, but I'm sure your warranty will cover it. Damn nuisance though.

In the hope of maybe giving you something to bring a little cheer, I'd like to offer a variation on something Patrick2 was fond of, as I'm sure it probably sums up the feelings of every forum member who reads this thread.

**silverfoxx** · 12-04-2015, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

The neck on my 2014 Gibson Tal Farlow is failing. The walnut strips are shrinking so much that all the lacquer is cracking and chipping off the walnut strips. The neck feels like it has 2 railroad tracks on it. It is shrinking so bad that their is even 2 deep lines now on the stinger veneer. Called Gibson and they said they will need to make a decision on it if they will warrant a repair. It is also developing a tail rise. Green wood ? Totally bummed. One of the nicest Tal's I have ever seen.

Vinny & Joe ,
I'm sorry to read that you both have this problem, when I read the OP I immediately had a close inspection
of my TF to check if had manifested these problems .Glad to say no such problems appear om my early
2013 model. I would be distraught too if it had. it is certainly my No 2 guitar to the L5 CES with a very
close tone and ease of playing also. Sincerely hope that you both can have some remedial action done by
Gibson and wish you good luck with that.
On reflection I suppose over here we have a much cooler average temperature and do not suffer the
humidity problems , our own county of Essex is somewhat similar to Seattle's weather
Off topic, I was mightily impressed with Franz's (Chris Metcalfe's ) tone with his ES350T especially through
an Evans combo ,although I haven't heard his new Mambo 8 wedge in a Sapele cabinet which I
anticipate will be at the least on a par.

**Max405** · 12-04-2015, 09:35 PM

Vin,
i just checked booboo out thoroughly. There is a very slight lacquer shrinkage in a couple of spots and a seem that runs up the neck. No voids in the clear.
I am 100% ok with mine. Personally I think it's ok. I realize you bought new and you should get a perfect guitar. I honestly think things made from different types wood glued together and then covered with breathable lacquer are prone to imperfections. But you deserve what you want and if Gibson dicks you around I will have your back 1000%.
Im sorry about this bro.
Joe D

**neatomic** · 12-04-2015, 09:51 PM

yes, but not always limited to just a cosmetic issue..there's a trussrod channel in that neck with 100's of lbs of pressure!..you sometimes see "skunk stripe" fender necks with similar problem...rod is exerting outward force and each wood is being strained..but differently!!..caution

cheers

**Jabberwocky** · 12-04-2015, 10:43 PM

Bummer for Vinny. Gibson under the cosh again. Hope Gibson puts it right. Worrying about it isn't going to help. Get it looked at by Gibson and see what they are going to do about it. Take it from there.

**vinnyv1k** · 12-05-2015, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco

Vin,
i just checked booboo out thoroughly. There is a very slight lacquer shrinkage in a couple of spots and a seem that runs up the neck. No voids in the clear.
I am 100% ok with mine. Personally I think it's ok. I realize you bought new and you should get a perfect guitar. I honestly think things made from different types wood glued together and then covered with breathable lacquer are prone to imperfections. But you deserve what you want and if Gibson dicks you around I will have your back 1000%.
Im sorry about this bro.
Joe D

Joe, lacquer shrinkage would not be a concern to me in the walnut channels at all but the walnut is all cracking and chunks are chipping off making the neck feel very rough. The tail rise has not affected the playability yet as long as it doesn't continue to rise. I am thinking pin stripe taping the walnut and filing the channels with a few coats of brushed on lacquer then wet sand smooth and overspray the whole neck ? Only if Gibson says nay to repairing. Just a plan B idea.

**lawson-stone** · 12-05-2015, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

I know people in the northeast who have never been out of a three state region.

Ha! I know Californians who have been to every state but seen and learned absolutely nothing. Now that I think of it, I know people from every state who have done that.

Dang, I think I've done that…

Also: Doesn't California have a lot of variation? I've been in Northern California and thought it was pretty rainy and damp; but in the central/southern western part of the state where it shades off into desert it can get pretty dry. Up in the Redwoods too, it can vary from drought to damp.

**Max405** · 12-05-2015, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Joe, lacquer shrinkage would not be a concern to me in the walnut channels at all but the walnut is all cracking and chunks are chipping off making the neck feel very rough. The tail rise has not affected the playability yet as long as it doesn't continue to rise. I am thinking pin stripe taping the walnut and filing the channels with a few coats of brushed on lacquer then wet sand smooth and overspray the whole neck ? Only if Gibson says nay to repairing. Just a plan B idea.

Vinny, yours sounds way worse than mine. Damn, I wish it was the other way around.
Based on your explanation, Gibson should be repairing yours. I checked all the necks I have with walnut strips, and none of them are like what you are describing.
Can your plan B be done? Absolutely. Let's see what Gibson says. They will take care of you. You are a good guy and have been a GREAT customer.
Joe D

**vinnyv1k** · 12-05-2015, 12:58 PM

Thanks Joe for your kind incouraging words. You are a good friend. The Gibson customer service guy said he was going to contact the Crimson Custom shop. I have a feeling those guys take a lot of pride in what they make and will do me right. This kind of stuff has happened with Gibson and me for over 40 years. Now you know why I tend to bash them but I do love Gibsons very much. Just bad luck with them. I just checked the walnut rails on my 2 L5's and Brydlland and they are smooth as glass with no shrinkage. I think they either used wet walnut or didn't seal it like Matt C said.

**Jim Soloway** · 12-05-2015, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Thanks Joe for your kind incouraging words. You are a good friend. The Gibson customer service guy said he was going to contact the Crimson Custom shop. I have a feeling those guys take a lot of pride in what they make and will do me right. This kind of stuff has happened with Gibson and me for over 40 years. Now you know why I tend to bash them but I do love Gibsons very much. Just bad luck with them. I just checked the walnut rails on my 2 L5's and Brydlland and they are smooth as glass with no shrinkage. I think they either used wet walnut or didn't seal it like Matt C said.

Isn't there some point at which it stops being just "bad luck" and just becomes a statistically normal failure? I know this topic brings out a lot of vitriol on both sides but it seems to me that buying a Gibson is akin to buying an MG in the early 70's. They were fun cars to drive but failure just became an accepted part of the experience.

**HeyNow** · 12-05-2015, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop

It's cool Roger. It's a big state with vastly different weather patterns but humidity was never an issue when I lived there...eons ago. Maybe global warming changed that?

I had problems when I lived in LA. It's 23% right now there.

**GNAPPI** · 12-05-2015, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

Isn't there some point at which it stops being just "bad luck" and just becomes a statistically normal failure? I know this topic brings out a lot of vitriol on both sides but it seems to me that buying a Gibson is akin to buying an MG in the early 70's. They were fun cars to drive but failure just became an accepted part of the experience.

Ouch... OUCH!!! Damn, an MG ? Double OUCH!

The 70's were filled with other crap cars, Fiat (Fix it Again Tony), Ford (Fix Or Repair Daily) heck most car brands and models for that matter.

But alas, your comment does have some merit as there are a number of quality stories being told about Gibson, but... Gibson sells a lot more guitars than many like Heritage, Eastman and others, but the thing is how many guitars you never hear about with a problem?

To that end...

I have 20 Gibsons, 6 bought new, the oldest going on 50 years old, the newest 2013 (actually all the new ones are 2003 and up) and none needed warranty work, all were excellent with the exception of two with minor self correctable issues.

So... despite this issue I do not think this Tal is anywhere a "normal" issue. I read most of the Gibson boards (mostly plank related) and yes, there are quality problems, most minor, and I can say many self inflicted by hobbyists that are part swappers.

I dare say of the MANY Japanese cars I paid upwards of $20,000 for had many, MANY more problems than that. A few had problems that cost me more to fix than any one of the guitars I own.

Finally, regarding other brands, maybe our heirs can sit down in a pub with some fish and chips with a Guiness and see how many of these guitars are still around :-)

I'll bet there's a LOT of Gibson in that conversation, because no matter what, it will ALWAYS pay to keep, repair, and or salvage and collect Gibson gits, not so for many brands.

**HeyNow** · 12-05-2015, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by skykomishone

Bummer Vinny. One of mine took a shock on the headstock, laterally falling from leaning against a wall onto a concrete and tile floor, causing the lacquer to crack to the wood along the walnut and maple joint about 10" worth. C/A thin glue into the joint, and now drop filling lacquer into the void. My first finish repair job attempt. I've been reading like mad and taking my time.

I expect Gibson will come through, but, my thoughts are with you man. Good luck with it.

Also, I live in Western Washington state, my house is almost impossible to get humid enough in the winter. I keep my best guitars in my study and run a humidifier on high constantly, struggling to hover around 35%.

The guitar WAS in a gig-bag when it fell. I never did feel comfortable about gig-bags, but allowed myself to be talked into one. My mistake.

Steve

i have a 7x7 storage space in my place that I keep my guitars so I don't have to humidify a large open area.

Have a remote hygrometer sensor in one case and the corresponding base station in my living room so I can keep an eye on the humidity.

The humidity in the little room with humidifier not on is less than what is reported on weather sites during the winter even if I'm not running heat. So, in my situation, even if weather sites report 50%, my guitars might see 35%.

Also I wouldn't trust the reading on your humidifier, if it has a reading. My $200 humidifier doesn't give an accurate reading.

**Jim Soloway** · 12-05-2015, 05:57 PM

Gary, my problems began with Gibson around 1991 when I had a complete neck failure resulting from a badly flawed piece of wood that was hidden behind a bad paint job. Gibson agreed to cover repairs under warranty but after three repairs failed to actually solve the problem they refused to replace either the neck or the guitar.

When we actively were building guitars, all of our assembly was actually done in a repair shop that was an authorized Gibson warranty center (along with several other brands). There were almost countless instances of Gibsons with flaws that should never made it out of the factory, some which made the guitar non-functional without extensive repairs and modifications. There were no equivalents from PRS and very few from Fender or Martin (at least in their current output). And given that we were building in that shop for about 11 years, it was a pretty large sample from which to form my opinion.

**GNAPPI** · 12-05-2015, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

Gary, my problems began with Gibson around 1991 when I had a complete neck failure resulting from a badly flawed piece of wood that was hidden behind a bad paint job. Gibson agreed to cover repairs under warranty but after three repairs failed to actually solve the problem they refused to replace either the neck or the guitar.

When we actively were building guitars, all of our assembly was actually done in a repair shop that was an authorized Gibson warranty center (along with several other brands). There were almost countless instances of Gibsons with flaws that should never made it out of the factory, some which made the guitar non-functional without extensive repairs and modifications. There were no equivalents from PRS and very few from Fender or Martin (at least in their current output). And given that we were building in that shop for about 11 years, it was a pretty large sample from which to form my opinion.

Well Jim, I'll bet that the Cadillar repair facility sees a lot of Caddys too? I personally only know of a couple of Caddilacs with problems and all were the V8/6/4 engines though I'm sure they no longer deserve "It's the CADILLAC of (your brand here) things" reputation.

My sainted ES-330 should never have made it out of the "custom shop" with the horrid pup spacer, thick pup dogear cover and the bridge set action 1/2' (OK maybe I'm inflating it a bit) off the neck but it was actually a minor nit but I have squealed about it like a stuck pig :-)

In the long run I hope you are stating a microcosm of events, not a large picture. Time will tell.

**vinlander** · 12-05-2015, 06:14 PM

The good thing with Gibson is no matter how their Q/C is being bashed on daily basis on various forums, mostly because of the USA line with the enormous volume they have, we often read how great they treat customers experiencing real "cover by warranty" issue and I don't think they will let Vinny down on that one.
It is more than just cosmetic issue like shrinking nitro finish around Gibson logo and crowns like some 90s models have...or even a badly cut nut like my Tal originally had (still unacceptable but fixable).
The issue experienced by Vinny is absolutely not normal on a guitar much less on a Gibson CS and is most probably wood related. There is a reason warranty do exist and am sure Gibson will do the right thing.

**vinnyv1k** · 12-05-2015, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by HeyNow

I had problems when I lived in LA. It's 23% right now there.

L.A. is dry but I live in the Bay Area. Humidity is 60 today. I'm 5 minutes from the bay and 20 minutes from the Pacific Ocean. SS lives in Santa Cruz so he always has sand between his toes. They have a saying in Calif. If you don't like the weather drive 10 minutes.
.

**neatomic** · 12-05-2015, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

. They have a saying in Calif. If you don't like the weather drive 10 minutes.
.

lookin at the ocean from my window...i'd ammend it from drive to wait 10 minutes!! constantly in flux...

i have a lot of snarks..and trussrod wrenches!!

upshot, can tune my guitar from the foghorns- perfect A !!! haha

cheers

**Greentone** · 12-05-2015, 07:25 PM

I have written about the period when I used to work for a big piano rebuilding service. Our biggest single business issue, back then? Steinway pianos during the period when Steinway changed over to Teflon bushings in the piano action. On the face of it, you'd think Teflon would make a great bushing/bearing surface--less friction than the traditional wood/felt/leather parts that were used in piano actions. Well, in practice nearly every critical pianist complained bitterly about the noise and feel of Steinway actions made in the 70s/80s when the Teflon actions were employed. I never worked for Steinway itself, but I can say that we replaced teflon with traditional bushings many times. I would wager that sooner or later Steinway proper ended up doing the same thing on virtually all of its 70s/80s actions that were under warranty.

If it can happen to Steinway, it can happen to Gibson.

Small consolation to Vinny, I know.

**Marty Grass** · 12-08-2015, 10:55 PM

There is something to be said about just settling on a Telecaster! I'm not there yet, but archtops are finicky creatures and demand attention.

I have three in the shop now. Two will be done in a couple of days. But I have two more to go in.

I was listening to Bill Frisell today and marveling at what he can get out of a Tele. And then there was Ted Greene.

There are guitars that come out of Gibson that shouldn't. My opinion is that many of them are not flukes. They are foreseeable failures and could be prevented. Yet Gibson does a lot of things right. So the problem is that Gibson isn't reliable. So far customer service has been kind to me. I'm optimistic, Vinny.

**neatomic** · 12-08-2015, 11:26 PM

with anything built from wood..which was once a living thing!..one has to expect changes..some guitars benefit with time..with others problems develop..still though, the most perfect purest vivid vehicle for sound.

let's just hope any misfires are backed by the integrity of the maker..i believe they will be

hope they will be too

cheers

**GNAPPI** · 12-09-2015, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by vinlander

It is more than just cosmetic issue like shrinking nitro finish around Gibson logo and crowns like some 90s models have...or even a badly cut nut like my Tal originally had (still unacceptable but fixable).

Actually, my 1996 Tal Farlow has the shrinking nitro finish on the head around the crown and logo. It didn't affect me when I was buying it, or whilst playing it, though it may affect my heir when he sells it. He will probably be in here selling them:-)