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Greetings all,
I bought something several months ago and am now getting down to brass tacks. I had it sent to a place where I wasn't but will be next week so need to take care of it.
I have an early 70s Gibson Johnny Smith where I fell in love with the opportunity (I love fixer-upper concepts in general (but only second time with a guitar) and I absolutely love the color. Issue is that it needs some TLC. Neck/frets were OK but PG gassed out. From the pics it looks like it was probably a D (double pickup). There is on one pic a little 'dirt shadow' which suggests the bridge pickup, and the hole in the top next to the fretboard from the pick guard mount is at the top of the fret space rather than in the middle like the single pickup PG screw.
If single, can use the existing pickup with a rewiring. If double, probably need to replace with Kent Armstrong JS pickups. Need a new pick guard, harness, knobs/selector (if "D") anyway.
Needs a new ebony insert and Johnny Smith plastic badge in the tailpiece.
Questions:
1) is it worth trying to find an original three way selector/wiring harness?
2) how does one get an original ebony bridge? any idea who makes one? I don't like the TOM.
3) is it worth trying to dig up original pups or just go with KAs?
Other than the setup and fretwork (frets need some work, not sure how much), would you recommend I assemble the parts myself and take them to a luthier or have the repairman/guitarshop sort all this stuff out? Personally, I am of the mind to find it myself as I think the markups will be quite high, and in the end, all of this stuff looks like install+setup rather than serious repair work.
Am I looking at this the wrong way?
Thanks
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11-26-2015 03:26 AM
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Sent you a mail I might have just what you need
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Congrats, travisty. That's a nice looking one you snagged.
First, I would take it to a good tech to dress and level the frets. I'd even replace them if they require replacing and level the fretboard at the same time, if it comes to that.
Second, fsw6 can help you with a new pickguard
. I see that he has PM-ed you. The new wiring harness and pots can be done yourself if you're handy with a soldering iron.
I'd keep the Johnny Smith pickup as it is or go with the Kent Armstrong or Jason Lollar equivalents. I won't bother with having a JS bridge pickup.
William Gagnon can carve you a new ebony bridge (base and saddle) complete with the MOP bow-tie inlays. I am sure he can make you an ebony medallion for that tailpiece too. The Johnny Smith plastic plate can be done at any signmaker's shop and glued on yourself.
That said, don't be quick to dismiss the ABR-1 TOM saddle. Groyniad reports great experience with the Graphtech String Saver saddle. It is certainly worth a try on an ebony base. (That is my 2016 project. As many Graphtech ABR-1 String Saver saddles as I can afford to buy.)
Given its age, I'd really get the neck looked at and make it playable. I recall rpguitar saying that his 1979 L-5C was totally transformed when he had it re-fretted and the fretboard levelled. It had arrived with the slightest neck warp that compression fretting took out. I won't worry about the conserving the nibs over the frets.
Woo hoo. Looks like a great buy. How about showing its backside?
Enjoy.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 11-26-2015 at 06:26 AM.
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Thanks Jabber,
I will of course have the neck and frets looked at. I expect at minimum it needs a dress/set-up, possibly a re-fret. If it needs serious neck work then so be it but I was told by my friend (who has it now) that it was even up and down the fretboard.
I am almost wondering, after looking at this some more, whether I can do all this myself (with help from fws6 of course on the PG). Soldering is fine, and I can probably figure out the harness if I get a wiring diagram.
As to single/double, I am thinking that if it is an original D I'd kind of like to keep it that way. One can always turn it into a single with a different PG.
And I guess I can make it eminently playable without replacing the bridge/saddle to start.
It is a classically Norlin-era guitar. The back is pretty plain. However, my friend says it sounds quite nice. And I adore the iced tea sunburst if that is what it is called. I'll have more pics next week but a few more are below.
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Just chatted with my friend. Re-discovered serial number. 1xxxxx stamped with a Made In USA tells me 1970-1972. Neck apparently fine. Needs a refret.
Worse, is that it and the case smell of mold. Anyone have any suggestions?
Happy Thanksgiving to one and all!
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I just did a project exactly like yours and I am very pleased with the results. I did what needed doing myself. You'll spend quite a bit of cash paying someone to do it and that seems to defeat the purpose of buying a guitar that needs some resurrecting. The gassing pickguard causes all kinds of problems with the pickups and the gold and wiring. It is very common and you will find most JS guitars have had this work done along the way. I don't really think it compromises the value of the guitar if that's your thing cause it's just so common. If your guitar was a double it should show on the gibson stamp inside. Locating the parts for the double might be a difficult task. I personally would opt for the single pickup regardless of the original configuration. I've had both and the larger pickguard of the double compromises the beautiful acoustic sound of the guitar. First I would send the pickup off to kent armstrong or Jason Lollar and have them replace the lead wire. Don't try this yourself it's not as easy as it might seem. The pickup cover can be replaced or re-plated. Be careful because the bracket spacing is a bit different on the JS pickup verses the ones being sold aftermarket. A pickguard should be easy enough to have replicated. The volume control and knob again should be easy enough to find. The pickguard side bracket I have not seen an exact for sale. They are pretty heavy metal with one screw. You can find the 2 screw model easy or the L5 type glue on bracket. Not sure how fussy you are wanting to be. The tricky parts are going to be the bracket for the control and mini plug. You will have to replicate those, not hard. The bracket is the same for the double or the single. I struggled with this but have some pictures dug up that show it's shape. I don't think you will have any luck finding them. Believe it or not the most difficult part is trying to find the screws! I kid you not. E-bay is always a good source. The bridge base on your guitar is not original and I would keep an eye out for one but I'm not hopeful you can find one. You might contact Gibson but I've heard that unless you use the repair shop they aren't going to sell you parts. I have not verified that statement though. Any neck work should be common for a good Luther. Good luck with your project!
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One more thing the screw configuration is exactly the same in the double verses the single. Only one screw (the one at the top) and one side bracket, the rest of the screws you see (2) are all attached to the pick guard only.
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Thanks skiboyny! (a long time ago I was a ski-boy in upstate NY too)
Label shows early 1970s.
shows what looks like mildew too...
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I had a 69 double and it was written on the label. That was probably a single I think. More common for the period.
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Thanks. Any idea/guidance of what kind of screw is the 'right' one?
Originally Posted by skiboyny
My PG is completely gone, bracket too. No screws left as far as I know to use as a sample.
Any recommended sources?
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I used trial and error based on photos. The only screw that I did have was the front pickguard screw the one that goes into the body at the top. You need a spacer block I've seen these on e-bay. The other screws are machine screws that go in to the pickguard side bracket and the control/input bracket. I used a L-5 bracket (one screw on the side) with the glue on support available on e-bay (I didn't want to add any extra holes in the guitar) For the bracket screw I used a screw and a nut so I didn't have to tap the pot bracket and also use a lighter gauge metal that I could fashion easier. Put some pictures in front of you of some existing single pickup JS and take your best guess. I tried to be as accurate as possible. I'll try to snap some photos of my end product for you....
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Some pictures. I used a L-5 pickguard that I had handy. I was going to change it out to the correct size (JS is just a bit larger) but I kind of like the color so I haven't done it. You can get them made with the aged binding that seems to fit that age a bit better so this was my prototype but I'm satisfied enough to run with it
.
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"And I adore the iced tea sunburst if that is what it is called"
it's a cherry burst. "iced tea" is around '62-'63
"I've had both and the larger pickguard of the double compromises the beautiful acoustic sound of the guitar"
as well as being big and ugly, stay w/a single as has been suggested. you can always change it to a double later [you probably won't want to]
some people add a jack to the tailpiece [where the strap button is] as it eliminates the cord hanging off the guard
it's not easy getting rid of the mildew smell. for the case you can try leaving it open in direct sunlight for a couple weeks w/the guitar left on a stand to air out.
for the case I've had decent luck w/ coffee grounds on a plate w/the lid closed. don't sprinkle anything like carpet cleaner granules in the case as you'll never be able to vacuum them all out, every time you open the case there'll be some on the guitar.
and spraying chemicals in the case isn't a good idea either.
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Sky bony, I am in awe. If you ever interested in selling that, please let me know. That is one of 2 guitars I recently discovered that were left in my bucket.. It is gorgeous. I absolutely love love love it.
Joe D
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Thanks Joe,
It would be hard to part with as it sounds better than it looks! I've had a few this has the "magic" in it..
Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
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You have a great project. I'd love one like that.
I made a L5-style tailpiece insert for a Korean guitar, that came out well. If I had your guitar I'd look into one of the 'custom trussrod cover' places can likely engrave your tailpiece tag.
You probably know that Stewart-MacDonald has the supplies to make the pickguard. I don't like their glue, however, I think it dries too fast to get the pieces together.
The other thing is that if I were going to stick five potentiometers on the pickguard I'd laminate the back to make it a little thicker. The long ES-150 pickguard I just made from StewMac's 3mm material was a little flimsy.
Last edited by icr; 11-26-2015 at 04:19 PM.
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Such a Travisty, Man. How could such a thing happen to a guitar lover? Finding something like you have found would be such a travesty. My sincere best wishes! I'd fall over and need to be resuscitated. That is and astoundingly beautiful Gibson.
Way to go!
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Thanks all, especially skiboyny. Your GJS is beautiful. Hope mine cleans up as well.
I will try to do as much as I can by myself. Will go slowly and surely. I will get frets/setup/refret done by excellent local guy and ask him to rewire pickup lead. Will go for new pickup cover (any thoughts who can supply?). I have made an arrangement for a PG and am working on a bridge and tailpiece insert. Otherwise it looks like a slow process of cleaning and primping.Last edited by travisty; 11-28-2015 at 01:46 AM.
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Good idea; some of these 'guitar restorers' will charge you an arm and a leg for their meticulous restoration.
I stood there in disbelief as this one guy quoted me a price of approx. $1200!
I took it to my regular guy, Roger Borys, who did most of the work for less than $300.
The rest of the work would only be needed if i wanted to display it in a museum...
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Thanks for the complement on my project. They have the covers at Allparts but again be careful that the size is exactly the same.If you had to you could get the existing cover re-platted. If you get lucky where ever you get the pickguard done will have a template of the original and cut the pickup hole as well as drill the other 3 holes. That will help you out quite a bit as far as accuracy goes. I wouldn't fret about it though cause all the originals gassed at some point and the folks that changed them didn't apparently get to fussy. I would get the correct bridge top and keep my eyes open for the bridge base at some point. Eastman guitars bridge top looks to be the same not sure about the spacing. I can understand why a Luther would have to get a lot of money to do the work. This project is much more about research and parts location and fabrication than actual labor time to put it all together. Best of luck to you...
Originally Posted by travisty
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