Gibson ES-150 CC pickup distance from bridge to blade?

[10course]

I just bought an Eastman 805 NC for the purpose of having a guitar for the Charlie Christian sound. I've ordered a floating pickguard mount Charlie Christian pickup from Vintage Vibe. However, the fingerboard is very long on this Eastman 805 with 23 frets!

I'm not sure I have the space to get a CC pickup far enough from the bridge to get the correct sound.....too close will sound like a Gretsch or something other than what I wanted.

Could someone who owns one measure for me? (metric is fine--better even). I use 13-56 strings and my bridge is set accordingly.
Thanks!

[neatomic]

ok first off the classic cc es 150 guitar had 19 frets..the pickup was placed so that the blade was at the 24th fret harmonic...

the eastman 805 seems to have 22 (not 23) frets!!..so you want to get your pickups blade as close to the 24th fret harmonic as possible..which means its going to be right at the fretboards edge


cheers

[Cunamara]

ok first off the classic cc es 150 guitar had 19 frets..the pickup was placed so that the blade was at the 24th fret harmonic...

the eastman 805 seems to have 22 (not 23) frets!!..so you want to get your pickups blade as close to the 24th fret harmonic as possible..which means its going to be right at the fretboards edge

That's assuming the scale length is the same. If the ES 150 is a 24 3/4" scale and the 805 is 25 1/2 it'll sound different no matter what. If the Eastman is a 25" scale it'll be less of an issue but still a tiny issue. If the scale length is the same or within 1/4" then getting the pickup against the end of the fretboard will be close enough in terms of placement. While the blade picks up a lot of the signal the pickup hears, the pickup "sees" the length of string over the whole magnetic field. There would be quite a bit of overlap between pickup positions that are close together.

What's going to be different is the issue of floating versus top-mounted pickups. 10course, it's going to sound different than an ES-150 no matter what you do just because of that difference, even if you can get the pickup location the same. That's not even taking into account the effects of the respective instruments' acoustic qualities. However, it probably will still sound great! Just be open minded about the results.

[neatomic]

good points all!..the eastman is supposedly 25" scale…

agreed, of more importance is that any cc floating or humbucker mount is never going to sound exactly like original 3 screw mount cc anyway…with huge magnets and magnetic field...

however at least getting the blade to a similar position is the best that can be done..and thats 24th fret blade +/-

cheers

[10course]

Thank you all! That's exactly what I needed to know.
Alternatives: I also have a Loar LH600 that was a candidate for the CC pickup. However, sadly, the $1000 Loar LH600 is actually louder and deeper/richer sounding than the new Eastman 805, and I don't want to re-designate its role as an electric.

Don't get me wrong, the Eastman is beautifully made, and plays like a pro setup was done before shipping. I'm totally satisfied. However, I play a lot of acoustic jazz, and would prefer not to mod the louder of the two guitars.

I will measure the CC pickup when it arrives and see where the blade lands at the 24th fret. ---If off, I really hope there is finish under the fingerboard extension if I have to have it cut back.

[Jabberwocky]

I think you're overthinking this. Mount it at the end of the fretboard extension without cutting it back. It is gonna be fine.

[neatomic]

cutting that extra piece of fretboard after the 22nd fret is an option, but i don't think i'd do it…with the cc mounted right at boards end, the blade will be close enough..not mathematically perfect but, well close enough...

interesting the loar is louder than the eastman..could it be the strings/set up?

cheers

[10course]

cutting that extra piece of fretboard after the 22nd fret is an option, but i don't think i'd do it…with the cc mounted right at boards end, the blade will be close enough..not mathematically perfect but, well close enough...

interesting the loar is louder than the eastman..could it be the strings/set up?

cheers

I though the strings might be a factor, so I changed them to the same D'addario 13-56, 80/20s. The Eastman truss rod has barely <2thousands relief. The action is lower on the Eastman, but not significantly. ---I'll try raising it a bit.

The observation that the Loar was louder was made by my bass player and piano player while rehearsing in a relatively small room. Not wanting to accept this judgement (truly not wanting to), I used a decibel meter later and discovered that my band members were correct. At 3 ft away, the Loar peaked one meter at 100 while the Eastman 93. Using a different meter at 3ft and then 5 ft, The Loar= 83-84, and the Eastman =79-80. ---A different disparity, but still consistent with louder.

Here is a variable I can't control: my Loar has been played almost every day since I got it a year ago. It was several years old when I purchased it second hand, so we can assume it was played before I received it. It has a Nitro lacquer finish. So, if an instrument must be "played in" to really open up, then Loar has been played-in. The Eastman 805 is a new instrument manufactured in late 2014, with a thick finish that does not feel or look like Nitro. There is no new data from Eastman as to what their new finishes are. It has not been played-in. Will the Eastman change and open up? I don't know if we remove the Nitro finish from the equation.

Note: my other Eastman is an 810 NC and has Nitro lacquer and sounds more open and louder after months of playing it.
However, I've always concluded that the Loar LH600 is a loud guitar and a lot of bang for the buck!

[jazzbow]

I put a Vintage Vibe h/b CC pickup on a Tele. The original s/c is directly underneath the 12th fret harmonic where as the h/b blade is not. Actually 15mm off.

But it still sounds soft with AlNico 2 magnets so don't worry mate.

[neatomic]

I put a Vintage Vibe h/b CC pickup on a Tele. The original s/c is directly underneath the 12th fret harmonic where as the h/b blade is not. Actually 15mm off.

But it still sounds soft with AlNico 2 magnets so don't worry mate.

sounds like you only routed from one side!…if you do it again i bet it'll be right in the middle!…haha

(or replaced prior humbucker in neck spot)

cheers

ps- & please no offense meant..i've seen your meticulous work in other threads, and can spot the perfectionist you are

[10course]

Different tailpieces? The Loar simple trapeze vs the Eastman ebony hairbrush-looking thing? Hmmm.....time for some more experiments.

[neatomic]

Different tailpieces? The Loar simple trapeze vs the Eastman ebony hairbrush-looking thing? Hmmm.....time for some more experiments.

nah, i wouldn't think that would be a major factor..sometimes the ebony is just a cover anyway..



guitars are like that..idiosnycratic...hard to really predict, whats gonna sound more pleasing than the next…thats why we love'm and chase'm!!!



cheers

[Greentone]

The 30s ES-150 is a 24-3/4" scale guitar, FWIW. I agree with everybody who says just park the pickup right off the end of the fingerboard on the Eastman. It'll be somewhere in the neighborhood of the 24th fret node. Good enough.

I've seen the CC pickup on old Gibson 150, L5, Super 400, ES300, and ES350 guitars. They are all different and the distance from the screws to the bridges were all different. The guitars all sounded GREAT!

Enjoy!

[jazzbow]

sounds like you only routed from one side!…if you do it again i bet it'll be right in the middle!…haha

Lol.

It's easy to do....
'Ain't she sweet?'


It will 'Come together' well and the routing out of the 'Norwegian Wood' will help you 'Carry that Weight'.
The plastic cover on the back is 'Fixing a Hole', otherwise 'I'm looking through you'.
'How do you do it?' I hear you ask, well, 'I don't want to spoil the party'.
Some vintage aficionados will say 'Let it be' but they're 'Mean Mr Mustard'.

Quite the 'Bad Boy!'

Just make sure the tech doing this sort of work will set it up correctly 'Here, There and Everywhere'.

More coffee please.

Ahem, sorry......

The CC p/u on the modified Junior is right up at the end of the f/brd and it looks like it's not under 24th fret harmonic. Still sounds good though!

[xavierbarcelo]

Hi! Sorry to bring back a thread from the Hades, but I would need to know the distance between the blade and the strings. I’ve got a Chinese 7 string to which I’ve mounted a John Anthony CC pickup (38 gauge wire). At the moment the blade is very far away from the strings, but this is the best I could do with only enlarging the pickup hole a little. I’d need to know if It’s enough or if I’d have to enlarge the hole and make a spacer. Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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[sgosnell]

It's just a matter of taste. Whatever distance sounds good is fine, there is no precise distance required.

[xavierbarcelo]

Thanks so much! Thing is I don’t have much room for experimenting. I think it does sound good, particularly through a Fender Champ clone (a Kong, quite a nice one), but the output is quite low. I guess it really doesn’t matter much. I’ll give it time and think what to do.

Thanks again!


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[sgosnell]

The further the pickup is from the strings, the lower the output will be, obviously. To be honest, I'm having trouble picturing your installation, or why you would need enlarge a hole to raise the pickup. I don't know if it's a solid-body, archtop, or what, nor how the pickup is mounted. Whether it's worth more work to get it closer is something only you can decide.

[campusfive]

I've ordered a floating pickguard mount Charlie Christian pickup from Vintage Vibe.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but if you're not going to mount a real CC pickup with the long magnets under the top, you're already not going to get it to sound exact. I know a lot of people who dig those VV CC floaters, and I've never played one personally, but just looking at Fred's videos, it's pretty clear they don't sound exactly like a real CC pickup, vintage or repro.

That said, they're in the ballpark, but since you're already not gonna get an exact sound, don't sweat the small stuff. Mount it at the end of the fingerboard like you would with any floater, and it'll probably be fine. You might have to experiment with the positioning, but I think that's true for any floater.

Also, yes, your Eastman will totally open up, if you play it enough. My 2004 805 non-cutaway (with 10 solid years of playing on it) totally holds it own with my vintage guitars.

[pingu]

]

I'd love a guitar like that ...
I used to have a twin cut LP special
with two p90's ....

It was great , really mellow , would've been a nice jazz solid guitar sound ...

I miss it ,
I'm just a jealous guy ....

[xavierbarcelo]

The further the pickup is from the strings, the lower the output will be, obviously. To be honest, I'm having trouble picturing your installation, or why you would need enlarge a hole to raise the pickup. I don't know if it's a solid-body, archtop, or what, nor how the pickup is mounted. Whether it's worth more work to get it closer is something only you can decide.

Yes, I guess I gave little detail. It is an archtop. I bought it really cheap (like 200 €). Originally it had a regular (rubbish) humbucker, but obviously the CC is much bigger, so I had to enlarge the cavity. I use a frame, so if I put a spacer that raises the pickup, I’ll have to go from a more or less oval hole to a rectangle, so that the whole of the pickup goes through the cavity. Here are some pics.

[Fred Archtop]

Well, I hate to break it to you, but if you're not going to mount a real CC pickup with the long magnets under the top, you're already not going to get it to sound exact. I know a lot of people who dig those VV CC floaters, and I've never played one personally, but just looking at Fred's videos, it's pretty clear they don't sound exactly like a real CC pickup, vintage or repro.

Can't agree more with Jonathan. VV CC PU are nice (I own 2) but not exactly like an original CC PU sound (I have a 1938 ES150). As already stated elsewhere in this forum a way to get a sound trustful to the original prewar ES150 is to get a cheapo L50 from that period, change // bracing for X bracing (see icr forum member's thread on that) and mount a real copy of the CC PU like the one done by CC PU UK. All the rest is flavor without real taste, although flavour is sometimes veeeeeery nice.

And just to address the question of the thread's title, on my original 1938 ES 150 the distance between PU bobin and strings is: bass side 0.9 cm, treble side 0.6 cm.



Hope this helps.

Cheers.

[xavierbarcelo]

Can't agree more with Jonathan. VV CC PU are nice (I own 2) but not exactly like an original CC PU sound (I have a 1938 ES150). As already stated elsewhere in this forum a way to get a sound trustful to the original prewar ES150 is to get a cheapo L50 from that period, change // bracing for X bracing (see icr forum member's thread on that) and mount a real copy of the CC PU like the one done by CC PU UK. All the rest is flavor without real taste, although flavour is sometimes veeeeeery nice.

And just to address the question of the thread's title, on my original 1938 ES 150 the distance between PU bobin and strings is: bass side 0.9 cm, treble side 0.6 cm.



Hope this helps.

Cheers.

It does. Thanks!


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[sgosnell]

The height adjustment screws on your pickup ring don't work? I can see how lowering the pickup could be problematic, but raising it shouldn't be a problem, but I can't tell for sure from your pictures.

[xavierbarcelo]

The height adjustment screws on your pickup ring don't work? I can see how lowering the pickup could be problematic, but raising it shouldn't be a problem, but I can't tell for sure from your pictures.

The thing is that the cavity is not big enough for raising it any further. That’s why I’m thinking I should do the work, but I’m not sure I’m proficient enough.


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