Epiphone ES-175 Premium v Ibanez LGB 30

[steinny]

My 2 cents, having owned one, the LGB30 is a really great guitar for the money if you are looking for the GB sound. Acoustically, it is typical for a laminated Ibanez jazzbox (i.e. if you care about the acoustic sound probably not the right guitar for you).

[jazzimprov]

Thanks Steinny,

Not looking to sound like George Benson just looking for a good acoustic sounding Ibanez that plays well
like the PM2.

[BeBob]

I don't think you'll be particularly impressed with the acoustic tone of the laminated Ibanez guitars.

Agree.

I like to practice unplugged, so unamplified acoustic tone is important to me. I recently compared many laminated price point guitars, with acoustic properties being one of my main concerns.

I have never been impressed by the acoustic tone or the acoustic volume of anybody's maple-topped laminated guitars, especially in the 15-16 inch platform. IMO the laminated guitars become a lot more tolerable once you move away from the maple tops. I think that spruce sounds significantly better. And acoustic projection got a lot better when I moved up to a 17-inch body with a spruce top. To me the small bodies just don't cut it.

I checked out several of Ibanez maple-topped laminated guitars and I was not particularly impressed. I suppose it would be more accurate to say I was surprisingly disappointed by their dead acoustic tone and lack of volume. To be fair, the selection at my local GC was limited, but in a side by side comparison between the maple-topped Ibanez laminates and the maple-topped Epi laminates, I think that the current production Unsung Epi 175 had significantly better acoustic projection. Still, I have never been impressed by the acoustic tone or the acoustic volume of anybody's maple-topped laminated guitars. Side by side I think that the Epi spruce top lams sounded significantly better than any of the maple top lams, and the 17" body sounded better than anything else I tried. I guess I just don't like laminated maple, period. Of course all of those guitars are at a lower price point than the LGB30.

IMO most laminated guitars become a lot more tolerable once you move away from the maple tops. In laminated guitars I think that a spruce top sounds sounds significantly better than a maple top. To me, anyway. And since that Ibanez LGB30 is a spruce topped guitar, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it as being like a maple-topped Ibanez. I'm thinking that the spruce Ibanez would have to be better than the maple guitars. Maybe I'm just biased that way.

To answer the OP's question -- I understand exactly where you're coming from. To me, a used Epi JPE sounded much louder acoustically than the current Epi 175 Premium. Both of those are similarly sized laminate guitars that differ primarily in their spruce vs maple laminated tops. I think that the LGB30 would be worth looking into. I couldn't find one locally to test.

[ColMc]

Both the Ibanez ss300 and the sj300 have have solid spruce tops.
I picked up a Epi es175 at a shop and was struck by how dead it was acoustically compared to my ss300.
It was like using a mute on a fiddle.

[mr. beaumont]

If you want a laminate guitar that actually sounds like something, check out Godin's offerings...

But warning, no ab-baloney or shiny finishes.

[pingu]

the lgb30 i tried was a gorgeous instrument
superb neck , fret work etc
howevet it was heavy built axe
thick top , ie acoustically fairly quiet

this is intentional I believe because of
feedback suppression when amped

Its a balance ... acoustic vs electric

[BeBob]

not to hijack, but am i the only guy who thinks cherry tops sound shrill?

[entresz]

The Godin 5th Avenue guitars are probable one of the better laminated guitars, acoustically speaking, however they're still pretty quiet and a tad 'clanky' sounding. If you can, check out some of the older German guitars ie. Hofners and Framus. Even the laminated guitars are very lightly built and super loud. I have a Hofner Senator that sees quite a bit of swing band work, it's very loud and punchy, no need to plug in.

Most newer archtops, particularly the Asian made ones (ie. Ibanez etc.) seem pretty heavily built, so there usually won't be much in the way of acoustic volume/tone, but they do excel when plugged in.

Have you tried a Guild A-150 Savoy? I think they're intended to be more of an electric/acoustic instrument. They certainly look the part.

[mr. beaumont]

not to hijack, but am i the only guy who thinks cherry tops sound shrill?

You mean the Godins? They're laminate. The type of wood they are has very little effect.

My Kingpin is actually quite loud for its size, and sounds better than any of the plastic coated shiny Ibanez, Epiphone, Gretsch, etc. Offerings.

[BeBob]

My tests don't seem to agree with yours. I don't think it's as simple as laminate tops all sound like duds, regardless of their wood content and regardless of who makes them. I think that wood content and who makes them plays a larger role than your comments suggest. I've been shopping locally for sub-$1000 lam archtops as a lark. Here's what I learned by playing a few guitars:

All of the Ibanez guitars that I found in the stores were Chinese, maple-topped, heavily coated specimens of the low-end Artcore and Artstar series. They had nice necks (thicker than the Epis which I regard as too slim) but acoustically they all sounded like duds. Every single Epi was louder acoustically.

In the same store I compared the Ibanez to a current production Epi ES-175 Premium (Unsung/Korean), a used Epi JPE2 (Unsung/Korean) and a NOS Epi ER (Unsung/Korean). I'd rank them in the following order, with the loudest ones on top:

2009 Epi Emperor Regent, Unsung/Korea, 17" lam spruce top
2009 Epi Joe Pass Emperor, Unsung/Korea, 16" lam spruce top
2014 Epi ES-175 Premium, Unsung/Korea, 16" lam maple top
current Ibanez Artcore/Artstar, China, 15.75" lam maple top

I thought that the Korean guitars were uniformly louder than the Chinese guitars, for whatever reason.
I thought that of the guitars with spruce tops, the big bodied guitar was louder than the small bodied guitar.
I thought that the spruce tops had much better tone and were louder than the maple tops.
All of the maple tops sounded like duds by comparison, with the Korean Epi sounding better than the Chinese Ibanez.

I wasn't able to play a Godin on the same day, though my recollection of the Godin at a different store was that it was much more "clanky" than any of the others. At this price point I liked the Emperor Regent. I know that some people around here love the ER while others hate it.

I think that the bottom line is that the lines of guitars that I played in this test all included guitars that are made in Korea, or used to be made in Korea but production was moved to China, and the Chinese guitars I played just weren't up to snuff yet.

Sorry for the hijack.

[Longways to Go]

My Epi 175 premium has a made in Korea sticker on the back of the headstock.

[BeBob]

You're right -- the 175 Premium that I played was Korean. My mistake.

So I think the moral of my story is that:

Large Body >> Small Body
Spruce >> Maple
Korean >> Chinese.

No surprises there.

[lawson-stone]

I have a good range of laminate archtops.

The Gibson ES165 1999 has a lovely acoustic tone. I wouldn't gig with it, but for practice it's very fine.

The VOS 1959 ES175 from Gibson is almost a pound lighter than the stock ES175 and has an accordingly louder acoustic tone.

My Japanese Aria Pro II PE180 (L5ces clone) is laminated but still has a surprisingly good acoustic sound.

Epiphone Broadwayi (Korea-Peerless) is adequate for practice but it doesn't jump out at you.

For acoustic tone you could also look at a Loar LH650 with a floater. All solid wood, all carved top and back, one-piece mahogany neck, ebony fingerboard and bridge. Good acoustic voice, nice electric sound. It's the L4c idea.

[BeBob]

The Loar is interesting... if you don't mind the short scale. Being styled after the L4c idea I was hoping they made it in 25.5.

edit: Silly me, I was thinking L5c.

[lawson-stone]

The Loar is interesting... if you don't mind the short scale. Being styled after the L4c idea I was hoping they made it in 25.5.

I thought the L4c was in fact a short-scale? My references (which admittedly are not comprehensive) all say 24.75" scale for the L4c, which is what the Loar has.

[Para]

The LGB30's I've played sounded quite loud and lively acoustically, must be down to the ears

[jazzimprov]

Thanks or all the great in depth responses!

Of the 4 Archtops I own to compare.

1. Sadowsky JH --what can you say? ....just about perfect.... laminate with poly even, but crazy good and crazy loud

2. Epiphone 175 premium-...got the thunk!
(The Epi 175 does have that thunk sound to it which I like but when you get past the 12th fret, it seems like the action is noticeably higher and not even as in other guitars, although though it has been to 2 good repairman).
Seems more difficult to play, with more effort needed, tried lighter strings (12-50) but may try the original gauge next (10-50?)--not an even feel past the 12th on the fretboard.
Like the Epi thunky dead--ish sound...what can I say...
Nitro Finish

3. Ibanez PM2 -weirdly easy to play.
Had a pickguard put on it (Benedetto)
Sounds loud and even all over the fingerboard.
Reminds me of the Sadowsky in feel and sound.

4. Peerless Monarch 16 w set pickup
A little divided on this one,
Kind of a nasally sound. --(anyone else think so?)
Sounds fine through an amp though
Thinner body and block inside may explain it
Plays great.

So I would maybe drop the peerless and get another Archtop but it is true that 2 pickup laminate guitars will not be very loud acoustically.

[lammie200]

...4. Peerless Monarch 16 w set pickup
A little divided on this one,
Kind of a nasally sound. --(anyone else think so?)
Sounds fine through an amp though
Thinner body and block inside may explain it
Plays great...

I changed from TI Swing 12's to TI Swing 13's and I really like the acoustic sound on my Monarch 16 w/ the set pickup. I can see how someone would think that the 12's have no depth. The 13's sound pretty full to me.

I also have a Chinese made Hagstrom. It is a little less than 16" wide and a little less than 3" deep. Neck & bridge set pickups, solid carved spruce top with laminated back and sides. It also has a bridge block like the Monarch. 25" scale and decently loud and is balanced unplugged with TI Swing 13's IMHO. $800 new delivered seemed right to me. You can get them used for less than $600.