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Peerless Cremona
Interesting debate. In the matter of pickups v. construction type/quality of materials ( guitar ) I think the Cremona is definitely one of the warmest, rich sounding archtops I have played in a long time. The all-solid body has a machine carved top ( not the thinnest and certainly not tap tuned ) and the pickup is a Korean Kent Armstrong Vintage 'G' type, not by any means an expensive option retailing at around $85 from WD Music. Just goes to show.
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08-23-2015 04:51 PM
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I agree Klatu, and JackZ has also questioned this, I think pickups are the Emperor's new clothes. I've got on the bandwagon myself in the past but I now think it's hype. We are being sold gain levels and EQ curves.
Originally Posted by Klatu
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The most significant improvements have been going from the stock pickups in an Schecter Jazz 7 with Duncan Designed pickups to a DiMarzio PAF-7 and from the stock pickup in an Ibanez 741XL to the same DiMarzio PAF-7. In those cases, the guitars were both actually pretty good but the manufacturer supplied pickups were terrible. The difference was obvious and significant. Originally Posted by Klatu
In other cases, the difference is less and improvement and more of a change (and the change is sometimes very obvious). Switching from a stock S-type bridge pickup of traditional specs (from any pickup maker) to a DiMarzio Virtual Solo is a huge change. Changing from any PAF style pickup to a Lollar El Rayo is an equally huge change. Whether anyone considers these to be positive or negative changes is entirely subjective but the fact is the change is significant and obvious.
For many players, serial pickup swapping is just another way of chasing rainbows and unicorns. It is not really any different than constantly changing guitars and has about the same impact but that doesn't mean that all pickup changes are meaningless any more than all guitar changes are meaningless.
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Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
I don't mean any disrespect to your comment Jim but there does seem to be something of an anti capitalism bias against guitar companies out there. The assumption seems to be that they all choose a crap stock pickup to save a few cents, ripping off the buyer. I understand that personal preferences are just that but the boutique pup industry would have us believe that nobody with any taste would ever like a stock pickup. With the exception of new departures, like out of phase positions on the strat, most "different" pickup sounds are just that. Different. The differences are subtle but it is currently much more fashionable to cleverly self select the right pickup swap than it is to change the EQ controls on a pedal or the amp.
And nobody makes any money when you change the EQ, so nobody plugs it
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David, Originally Posted by blackcat
Whatz up? Been a while. How's France?
The Cremona is lovely for a maple top guitar. Many other maple guitars sound brittle but the Cremona still manages to impart the warmth....
Doc Dosco
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Which would those be, doc? Solid maple top, i can really only think of the 575 and some of the Peerless.'
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I have had several laminate maple tops in past years which have sounded like a wet blanket with PUPS. (Both Ibanez, oddly enough) To get them to sound defined, It always seemed I had to boost the treble, and thus any warmth disappeared. They were not solid tops though, I must confess. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Eastman makes some solid maple tops, as do a few other makers. They are out there.
I guess my point is that maple, being such a hard wood, doesn't naturally have the depth and richness of spruce. Even the solid top Peerless Jazz City isn't a 'warm' guitar. Nor is the Peerless Wizard and a few others (abet laminates). Most of my experience is with Peerless models so that is my point of reference.
The Cremona, as David mentioned, has that warm, toasty sound.
Maybe some Cremona owners would care to chime in. I don't own a Cremona myself. However, I have just had a number come through my shop over the years and I always dug the sound.
Doc Dosco
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Actually, the biggest players in the third party pickup industry make their biggest revenue by supplying pickups directly to guitar builders. Lollar supplies pickups to Collings (among others). DiMarzio supplies pickups to Ibanez for most of their higher end solid body guitars. Duncan supplies pickups to Heritage (and countless others). As for the guitar companies, some supply guitars with great pickups, others not so much. Some do in some models and not in others. If people want to believe that replacement pickups is entirely a hustle and a con feel free. My belief is that some is and some isn't and some is just insecure players seeking what they can't find within themselves and then blaming it on the vendors when the unicorns don't suddenly appear. Originally Posted by Chimera1to1
Last edited by Jim Soloway; 08-24-2015 at 12:17 AM.
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One aspect (not more and not less) that may not be getting the attention it deserves is that buying a product from a dedicated pickup manufacturer can ensure consistency. A Duncan 59 will always be a Duncan 59. So if you decide to get one, you know where your're headed. I am less sure that the Epiphone Classic 57 is a consistent product, and Ibanez has been obfuscating their Super 58 concept almost beyond recognition, to name just two examples.
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Hi Doc, Originally Posted by docdosco
You are right, some time since we spoke. Busy here as ever and hoping to have some exciting news pursuant to the UK/EU distributor for Peerless parting company with Korea, certainly by the end of the year. As for France, it's fine thanks, but has been a tad on the warm side this summer kicking off at the end of May and with 40deg + on several occasions. Trust you are coping with drought over there?
Cremona. Exactly as I said in the earlier post and somehow Korea seemed to get the proportions and layout of that model spot on. When compressed/scaled-down as the Leela it somehow did not work quite so well. As for pickups I do subscribe to some degree to what Jim Soloway has to say about chasing rainbows and can confirm that my humble Ibanez AFJ95 sounds superb in the hands of a locally-based French session guy. That said, I can discern a small difference in tonal range between the Super 58 Customs on there and the Super 58s ( Japan ) on a friends model. As has been pointed out too we should never forget the magic that can be worked by judicous use of the humble EQ pedal.
Did you buy the TC reverb pedal?
David
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That is no joke there. haha. That has been a pool of HORRIBLY muddy water for quite some time. Originally Posted by palindrome
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I think I used the word cynical when referring to this elsewhere on this forum. Example. In a 2013 Guitar Interactive Mag review of three Artcore Expressionist models including the AFJ95 the pickups are clearly inscribed at the bottom right on their covers exactly like those on the LGB30 and other more expensive models. The reviewer refers to them as Super 58s and aligns them in his comments with the pickups on Ibanez Signature models like the PM, JS etc. My AFJ95 purchased a matter of months ago has no such inscription and I see for the pages of the Ibanez European print catalogue that all models in the Artcore Expressionist range and upwards/above have 'Super 58' pickups. Whatever happened to Super 58 Custom versions one wonders?
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pickups are not rocket science and don't need to be hand-made. In fact , consistency comes from machine making and even the cheapest offshore pickups are machine made. I can't imagine there would be much variation between them. Originally Posted by palindrome
However, if your point is that ibanez may be calling 2 completely different sets of pickups a super 58, I can buy that.
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I konw nothing...:-)
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Originally Posted by Klatu
Please elaborate on the nature of your tone test. It seems to me that if the acoustic tone in your situation were to translate directly to the amplified sound, a carved acoustic archtop with a floater would win out every time. The acoustic sound of a Les Paul or 335 is nothing to write home about, yet their electric tones are legendary. Originally Posted by jzucker
Also, I'd like some insight into the evolution of your opinion concerning the Hofner Jazzica.
Thanks.
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That too, but my main points would be that (a) some guitar manufacturers may be using slightly different pickups in different guitars while still using the same designation and (b) that cheap pickups are more likely to get cobbled together from whatever magnets, wires and other ingredients happen to be at hand at any given time. Originally Posted by jzucker
Thus I'm not saying that cheap pickups are necessarily bad, and I haven't been meaning to compare hand-wound to machine-wound.
The question here seems to be: what can a good pickup do? As a common-sense formula, I would suggest:
(A) Can they make a bad guitar sound good? No.
(B) Can they make a good guitar with a bad pickup sound better? Yes.
(C) Can they make a good guitar with a good pickup sound better? Depends on what you're trying to achieve.
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David,
I bought the pedal. I am just waiting for it to arrive.
We are burning up. And there is that 'small' water issue.... we are simply melting and then evaporating.... and Cali is slowly turning into the Sahara desert it seems. The state (and the whole west coast) is on fire and highs expected to go to 107 F by Thursday in LA. I did an acoustic in the park gig Sat, and it was not too bad, but the previous Sat we were under a tent in Long Beach and it was 108 in LA that day. It was hot, hot, hot. We have been getting really scorched here a lot this year (not like Arizona at 116-117 but still cooking for the coast). Of course because it still snows in the winter at higher latitudes, many good old boys think that man made climate change is a leftist plot. Ha! I say (wiping away the sweat).... if it's a damn plot, the plotsters are doing a bang up job heating the earth like a frying pan just to blame it on certain corporations.
How is the French fracking business going? Going broke I hope.
Note: Sorry all. David and I have been acquainted quite a while and we trade horror stories on how certain other irresponsible people are fouling the nest (meaning our planet). Such as fracking in France and here, and we growl about the endless greed and willful ignorance that is displayed by the actions of some nefarious companies.
Segue back to guitars.
Hopefully some Cremona owners will pipe up. The maple vs spruce is a good topic. I am a spruce lover, but certain carved maple tops do have their charm.....
Cheers,
Doc Dosco
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My son lives in CA. He is an optimist, which I think you have to be to live in California.
Regarding the H575, I have only played one once, but it was a very nicely made guitar. It had a definite "woody" sound (sorry for the overused adjective) but did not have the Gibson 175 thunk or darkness. I would definitely consider one, but not if one is going primarily for the ES175 tone.
Regarding the Peerless, I haven't played an Imperial or Cremona, but I have a Sunset--super well-made and playing guitar. The pickups are supposed to be Epi Classic 57's, which I wasn't crazy about in an older Epi JP, but which sound superb in this thinline guitar. Maybe the quality has gone up, maybe they're using a different factory, maybe these pickups just suit the Sunset better, but I don't think you can judge a guitar based just on what OEM pickup is in there--I think you have to play it and let your ears decide. JMO.
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Doctor Jeff,
Living in CA in a killer drought ain't for sissies! (just like growing old isn't either)
As I have said, I still really like Heritage guitars, even with the issues I had with several way back when. I played a Heritage Johnny Smith model years ago from the fellow that sold me the 575 carved spruce top floater. It was truly delightful. I tried to buy that guitar but the seller would not part with it and I don't blame him.
The ES175 is not a guitar that ever excited me. Peerless make a Gigmaster Jazz to the same general spec. The ones I have had were really like butter to play, but that laminate sound didn't tickle me either. Just not my cup of dish (as Lawrence Welk used to say)
I had a Sunset too. Lovely guitar. I did sell it to a friend as the style of the box wasn't optimal for me. However, that damn thing played so nicely, I would put it near the top of the list as the best neck and action on any guitar I have had.
Peerless have gone through a PU awakening in recent years. The more costly Peerless all have Kent Armstrong PUPs now and I do think that the general feedback on the stock Epiphone 57 style that they used to use caused them to get a grade better PU for the general stock guitars. The price point that they aimed for on the laminate and pressed top models left the electronics lacking on some models, and I know the UK/UE guys wanted better components, especially as the selling price has jumped up over there in recent times. I have a Renaissance thinline 40th Anniversary model (only 50 made) that has 2 Stormy Monday Bare Knuckle PUPs and this guitar is deadly. Solid spruce top (not laminate like the stock ones) ebony fretboard, Groover tuners, etc. The Brits made sure the electronics were top notch on the 40th models and I am really glad they did.
Cheers,
Doc Dosco
PS.... I am playing a 2007 Monarch (in 2008) on this clip with the old stock PUPs and the thing sounds fine to me. A bit pingy at times, but I had the action practically laying on the fretboard. Maybe a KA would smooth out the tone more, but the cheap stock PUPs are still OK....
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Okay. You gents have convinced me.
In approx. two weeks I am buying a brand new, shiny H575.
I hope that I am as happy with the instrument as many of you appear to have been with yours.
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Peerless, but then what do I know. 2013 Cremona owner.
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Hate to sound skeptical here, but if this guy is willing to sell you a new Peerless for $2100, or a used Heritage 575, for the same price, which do you think he would make more money on?!
I tend to think markups for new instruments are higher than they are for used instruments. Didn't the standard markup for new guitars use to be 100%?Last edited by goldenwave77; 08-25-2015 at 05:26 PM.
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Just a small point here ( not nit picking in any way ) and that is that from the beginning, Peerless marketed their 'own brand' guitars as having Pickups that were '90% of an Epiphone Classic 57' or something similar in the early catalogues ( starting in 2007 ). They did not in fact, claim that they were actual Epiphone pickups but Korean into English plays tricks and what they told us they were actually intending was to say that their OEM pickups were based on this known standard. Hope that clears up a common misbelief. Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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'Peerless have gone through a PU awakening in recent years. The more costly Peerless all have Kent Armstrong PUPs now and I do think that the general feedback on the stock Epiphone 57 style that they used to use caused them to get a grade better PU for the general stock guitars. The price point that they aimed for on the laminate and pressed top models left the electronics lacking on some models, and I know the UK/UE guys wanted better components, especially as the selling price has jumped up over there in recent times. I have a Renaissance thinline 40th Anniversary model (only 50 made) that has 2 Stormy Monday Bare Knuckle PUPs and this guitar is deadly. Solid spruce top (not laminate like the stock ones) ebony fretboard, Groover tuners, etc. The Brits made sure the electronics were top notch on the 40th models and I am really glad they did'.
Spot on Doc and you have been involved with Peerless that much longer than I, so have an enhanced perspective. That said, I know that the EU distributor pressed the Korean factory for some time to make the pickup change ( and in the end they relented with CTS pots on the top end models too ). I note that you refer to the Epiphone 'style' pickup reinforcing my other response that the Epi was only used as a benchmark/model and was not the actual pickup fitted to those early models. I have the Renaissance Custom thinline ( all-solid maple with no centre block ) and after fitting a Benedetto A6 in the neck position I can confirm that it is my second most favourite Peerless after the Cremona and a guitar I will never part with. Great clip ( Bb blues ) there.
For clarification, as mentioned elsewhere, the UK/EU distributor has now parted company with the Korean factory but of course you continue as endorsee and supplier in the US along with Guitars'n Jazz. The former UK/EU distributor will be announcing a new marque and models before the year end. I promise that you will here it here first!
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Originally Posted by goldenwave77
$2695, the list of a Cremona, is a far cry from $2100, which is actually $200 below MAP. Fred has a good price from Lou at GnJ. Landed cost on the Peerless has added fees too. I got socked $150 a guitar from Fed Ex last time I got some Peerless because I was forced to do air freight vs ocean container. Importing via container has it's own headaches these days. There is now a Homeland Security Fee, which takes the place of any import duty cancelled by free trade, there are also warehouse, broker, and US delivery fees for ocean shipping, and there is now a potential government bond of $5,000 to $15,000 required for ocean port importers. I didn't care to take the chance of having to bond out $15,000 for 10 or 12 guitars, being a little guy in the guitar selling world.
Further, a new instrument usually does have a lower resale value than reselling a used one. I think we all know that.
And, whatever the dealer makes on this sale is irrelevant. Fred was given options for his purchase. He is hopefully making up his own mind on what he wants, not what the dealer is pitching. Also, if you buy with just resale in mind, you are essentially buying a guitar for an investment, not as an instrument....
Doc Dosco
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