Semi-Hollow Guitars - Collings vs Sadowsky vs Gibson

[John A.]

I guess my confusion stems from your assertion that "the string slides over the bridge easily". Does it really? I can easily see how this kind of movement occurs when you use a tremolo bar. But otherwise, how can I observe this movement you're talking about? Thanks in advance.

I have a D’Angelico EXDC with a trapeze tailpiece. I’ve tested the theory that the string slides over the bridge by sticking a piece of tape to the length of string between the bridge and the tailpiece and seeing how it moves when I bend the string.

As far as I can see, the tape does not move.

[rpjazzguitar]

[QUOTE=jazzshrink;1312225]I guess my confusion stems from your assertion that "the string slides over the bridge easily". Does it really? I can easily see how this kind of movement occurs when you use a tremolo bar. But otherwise, how can I observe this movement you're talking about? Thanks in advance.[/

This is a good point, which requires some sharpening of my thinking.

When you deflect the string, what happens? Increased tension, I should think, in light of the fact that the pitch rises. If the string is under greater tension, wouldn't that include the portion behind the bridge?

[jazzshrink]

...When you deflect the string, what happens? Increased tension, I should think, in light of the fact that the pitch rises. If the string is under greater tension, wouldn't that include the portion behind the bridge?

Sorry, but I don't fully understand what you meant by "deflecting" the string. That being said, I would think the answer to your question is "no". As I said before, when I fret or bend a string and simultaneously pluck that string between the bridge and tailpiece, there's no change in the pitch. With a change in tension, wouldn't the pitch have to change?

[John A.]

When you deflect the string, what happens? Increased tension, I should think, in light of the fact that the pitch rises. If the string is under greater tension, wouldn't that include the portion behind the bridge?

My guess is that the degree to which the lengths of string on either saddle are coupled depends on break angle over the bridge and string length behind the bridge. All I can say is that on my guitar they appear not to be. I can also say is that my guitar does not have subjectively noticeably different string tension from the specific stop-tail 335 I’ve compared it to. I’m happy to have my mind changed by evidence to the contrary.

[rpjazzguitar]

Sorry, but I don't fully understand what you meant by "deflecting" the string. That being said, I would think the answer to your question is "no". As I said before, when I fret or bend a string and simultaneously pluck that string between the bridge and tailpiece, there's no change in the pitch. With a change in tension, wouldn't the pitch have to change?

Bending or fretting it.

In a bend, you are tightening the string (the main part), which is why the pitch increases.

Seems to me that the pitch would have to change behind the bridge unless the bridge actually becomes a barrier. Perhaps not audibly?

Suppose you pluck the string behind the bridge while turning the tuning key to make the string sharper.
If the bridge is a barrier, you shouldn't hear a change in pitch. I'll have to try that later today.


EDIT: I just tried it. When I pluck behind the bridge and bend the B string, I can clearly hear the pitch shift. Same if I move the tuner. The bridge did not act as a barrier. Since the plinky sounding note behind the bridge increases in pitch when I bend or tune the string, the string must be under more tension behind the bridge.

[John A.]

Bending or fretting it.

In a bend, you are tightening the string (the main part), which is why the pitch increases.

Seems to me that the pitch would have to change behind the bridge unless the bridge actually becomes a barrier. Perhaps not audibly?

Suppose you pluck the string behind the bridge while turning the tuning key to make the string sharper.
If the bridge is a barrier, you shouldn't hear a change in pitch. I'll have to try that later today.


EDIT: I just tried it. When I pluck behind the bridge and bend the B string, I can clearly hear the pitch shift. Same if I move the tuner. The bridge did not act as a barrier. Since the plinky sounding note behind the bridge increases in pitch when I bend or tune the string, the string must be under more tension behind the bridge.

I tried it on mine, E, B, and G strings. With bending, there’s no change in pitch until a certain threshold - it takes a bit more than half-step bend to produce a change in pitch behind the bridge, and the change is quite distinct. When just fretting the string without bending there’s no change in pitch behind the string no matter where I fret the string.

Friction is a force. If you apply only a smaller force, you won’t overcome it and the string won’t move relative to the saddle.

[rpjazzguitar]

I tried it on mine, E, B, and G strings. With bending, there’s no change in pitch until a certain threshold - it takes a bit more than half-step bend to produce a change in pitch behind the bridge, and the change is quite distinct. When just fretting the string without bending there’s no change in pitch behind the string no matter where I fret the string.

Friction is a force. If you apply only a smaller force, you won’t overcome it and the string won’t move relative to the saddle.

May reflect differences in the friction between string and saddle.

[Jimmy Mack]

Weirdly, the guitar I’m most interested in comparing to a real 335 is actually the Sire 335 copy (forget the name). Given Carlton is touring with these guitars and clips suggest they have the 335 mid range… should be interesting.

The one I picked up at GC almost threw me off balance. Pretty but heavy.

[John A.]

The one I picked up at GC almost threw me off balance. Pretty but heavy.

Tim pierce compared the Sire to his 335. The Sire is brighter sounding, and he suggests it’s due to pickup differences. I haven’t tried one myself, though.