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So if I get an Epiphone Sheraton II, and I put in an upgraded wiring, pots, and switches, as well as upgraded pickups, you mean to tell me I can't sell it for more than I could if I had left it stock? How about if I throw in the original pickups in the deal?
Thanks.
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08-04-2015 07:37 AM
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That's right. There's no guarantee that the pickups you put in it are better than the originals and it'll cost $$$ to restore it back to original. In general, mods to original guitars do not pay back when you sell the guitar.
Originally Posted by AlsoRan
Plus, many people want a cheap guitar to be cheap. Polishing a turd is not the best way forward for investment's sake.
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I had a blond Sheraton years ago. Paid 499 for it. Took the pickups out replaced them with Gibson 57 classics and replaced the tailpiece with a ren Waller tunable one and added locking grovers to it. This was my main gigging guitar for 10 years. I kept it mint, because I loved it. I sold it buy an epiphone Joe Pass. What did I get for it? $275. Believe it or not, that was the best guitar I ever owned. A Swiss Army knife, if you will. I was dumb for selling it.
Like Jack says, it is what it is.
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You could also ask yourself this, how many people mod their guitars to make them better? Actually not that many. So you only have to look at that fact to see that people prefer stock. If they want to make changes then THEY will make the changes, not you. If they are buying changes someone else made, then they want a discount because there is an element of risk on their part.
Did you do the work properly, what if they have to sell it etc.
The only mods that can add money are ones that make a completely different guitar that fills a gap in the market no one else has filled.
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I have been a compulsive modder of cheap Epis for years and in my experience none of the money investedyou get back.
It can make a guitar more appealing for potential buyers, but usually will not translate in the selling price.
I sold a Sheraton II with 300$ worth of mods Gibby classic 57/57+ and all wiring redone (thankfully I did the work myself) but it was easy to sell...
It was worth the time I spent modding them, the learning process is priceless..you don't want to learn how to mod and tweak on expensive guitars...
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Wow....
Eye-opening...
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Modding a cheap guitar ( lipstick on a pig?) generally does not add or subtract value. Modding an expensive guitar generally subtracts value. The smart way to proceed is to find a stock guitar that works for you. For the most part, that was Wes Montgomery's way, and if he could sound that great on a stock guitar, why can't we?
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Where modded guitars guitars are concerned, cheap or expensive, you are at the mercy of the modders skill level....
Godin 5th Ave with added P90's
Unfortunately the modder thought you had to cut out a cavity for a P90 on an archtop.
A terrible mistake!
This was on ebay a long time back just as the Kingpin first came onto the market.
Still, the owner made a nice flat top out of an arch top!
I would mod my gear to improve the pick up sound to my taste.
Finding the right pick up that was a keeper means you can lose the guitar it occupies...
To then leave you with an awesome Jazz Tele!!
My latest squeeze, an Epi Emp Reg, will have a whole array of pickup choices and swappable scratch plates with different pots, filters and caps. I shall be using push connectors to make the swapping option in minutes.
I'll post up my bizarre frankensteining when all done!
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While I agree with every response that the OP has gotten to his question so far, I don't totally agree with the absoluteness reflected in these responses. It's highly improbable, but not impossible that someone might see an inexpensive guitar being offered for sale, but they couldn't live with the cheap sounding electronics. They might find more acceptable with the upgrades than they would without them.
In the example the OP posted, what if a potential buyer kinda liked the Sheraton II, but its cheap electronics were keeping him from buying one . . . and the thought of the having to make the upgrades himself was also a deterent? It's not impossible that he'd find the guitar desireable with the upgrades and be willing to pay a bit more for it, than he would for a purely stock example. But, as all before me have implied . . . good luck finding such a buyer. lololol
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I replaced the electronics, Benedetto S6, caps, pots and jack, properly grounded the strings, had someone else level the frets on a Washburn J600, knowing full well that I destroyed any resale value. If someone wants one of these relatively inexpensive 17in archtops with really nice necks they'll just get a new one and make it their own like I did.
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As a guy who has been into modifying anything with wheels(cars, trucks, atvs, motorcycles ect...) I can tell you that modifying something generally brings no more value to it. THE best you can hope for is recover some of the money you invested in the parts and labor to modify it.
You should only modify something for one reason. YOU think it makes it better, more fun, more functional than it was stock.
'Moe
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This. I modded my archtop with different pickup, pots, caps, etc., through several iterations in search of the sound I wanted. Resale value is irrelevant. Many people are IMHO too worried about it. Make the guitar work for you. Originally Posted by Jazzman301
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On the plus side, modding can be fun & can definitely make a mediocre guitar play & sound better.
If you look at this the buyer's side, it also means there can be some cool bargains out there
FWIW, I traded in a Samick 335 with Gibson pickups at GC last year -- they gave me a little extra trade-in $$ for the pickups.
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I think it's about the same as with cars. You may mod / upgrade it with gadgets, leather seats, whatever, but when you sell it, it won't bring much more than the standard trim. Age and mileage is still what counts most. It may be easier to sell though (if there a buyer out there wanting those add ons).
BTW, I have never given resale value of my guitars much consideration. But then I tend to keep my guitars - I'm not much of guitar flipper.
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Modding out cheap guitars doesn't subtract value but it doesn't often add much value at final resale. Even if you put in the most boutique pickups and fetishised caps and pots etc, you'll be lucky to get back much on those item's value in the sale. You're better off selling those items separately and selling the cheap guitar stock. If you mod/upgrade a guitar keep it for yourself I say. Sell the ingrates stock stuff.
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Interesting thread. I'm right in the middle of sprucing up a Samick made J Pass. Trying to get my repair and set-up chops back. So far anything done is reversible and I've saved all the old parts.
Spent around 150 so far and will probably spend another 50-60. I'll have around 500 in it with OHC and good gig bag. Seems like it would sell for that or close. Of course there's 1000's of them.
I'm considering swapping the tailpiece, which will require new holes and change everything.
I don't plan on selling it but I can swap it all out if it won't sell as-is. Until then I'll have a good 24+3/4 scale guitar to play and I'll get to do some fret work, wiring and set up.
I've watched for a Sheraton also. Really like the maple necks but they don't seem to look right, the horns don't look right. Am I wrong about that? Still I'd like a 335 style guitar and probably buy one and probably upgrade it if it needs it.
I like the Korean Epi's. They're great platforms for trying stuff and affordable enough to have a few. I don't think I'd want to own a 3000 Les Paul but a 500 one, maybe.
IMO upgrades aren't bad and there's lots great parts out there cheap. Keep the old stuff and if your going to get the router out, sleep on it!
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Modding is a great learning experience. One way to KNOW a guitar is to have either built it or torn it apart and rebuild it. Originally Posted by Longways to Go
On the plus side, modding can be fun & can definitely make a mediocre guitar play & sound better.
If you look at this the buyer's side, it also means there can be some cool bargains out there
FWIW, I traded in a Samick 335 with Gibson pickups at GC last year -- they gave me a little extra trade-in $$ for the pickups.
Modding makes it your own. Why buy a Joe Pass when I can create an Archtop Bill?
If you want to mitigate your costs on a modded guitar, keep the stock parts and restore the guitar to as close to original as possible. Sell the stock guitar and upgraded components separately.
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well, because it's not a used ES-335?
i believe that i would have said something nice like...
upgrading a Karmann Ghia doesn't mean that you've built a Porsche, or
upgrading a Camaro doesn't mean that you have a Vette Z06
and so on.
but Zucker beat me to it with the "polishing a turd" analogy.
blunt but true.
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I agree with the general sentiment here. Modding cheaper instruments rarely adds value. And most turds don't polish well.
But mods -- done well and for good reason -- can add tremendous benefit to particular instruments. It rarely comes across in resale price, but typically was not done for that reason. An example: needed a tele last year, got interested in the Baja tele. Found many for sale used, all within a certain price range. Most were too heavy, did not feel right. Finally see a local CL ad for one, went down and checked it out. This guy is a working pro. Feared to take his high-end tele to certain gigs, needed something very good but cheaper for those times. He'd looked high and low for the right one. Bought the lightest and most resonant one he saw. Then had it refretted out of the box, got it playing just as he needed.
This guy was asking at the top end of the used Baja pricing. Got a lot of interest, all lowballing, none actually trying the guitar. I picked it up and knew right away this was perfect for me. Way better than I could get new, given the low weight and really fine playing fret job. So I paid his price, and left happy. Now that guitar has a Glendale bridge plate and Rutters steel saddles, plus Rumpelstiltskin Black Rope pickups, my contribution to modding.
He lost money on his sale. If I sold it as is, I'd lose what I put into it. But that is not reflective of actual value to me. He and I both did right by this Baja tele. It is much, much better for the mods. Trying to explain that to the next buyer would be futile exercise. It's too good a tele to part with, so I won't need to do that.
Just because mods don't pay off in resale does not mean they have no value or were done frivolously.
MD
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What is your definition of a turd? An Epi Sheritan is decent, playable guitar. Upgraded pups and other components would likely be an improvement.
On the other hand, anyone looking at a Korean/Chinese made guitar as an investment would be better off putting their money into the Greek stock market.
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I think that used guitar pricing overall isn't driven just by utility. The collector's mentality that places a high premium on originality figures in all used guitar prices. There's an irrational dimension to this, since a modified instrument is often a better instrument, but collecting isn't an entirely rational pursuit. It's also a bit strange that this extends to guitars that are not even collectible. My guess is that market is suffused with the hope that these will some day be collectible. It is what it is. Also, it isn't necessarily always like this. In the throes of the Norlin and CBS captivities, modded guitars sometimes were more expensive than original ones (e.g., trapeze tailpieces on 335's replaced with stop tails, various bridge mods on Strats, active pickups on J-basses, replacement bridges on Gibson flattops, Klusons replaced with Grovers or Schallers). Who knows? Maybe that'll come back around.
John
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Modded instruments never get good appraisal, as they're seen as tempered with, b-grade instruments that people WANT TO GET RID OF; it doesn't matter if they play and sound way better than your average Gibson or so.
Plus, the ones looking for modded instruments are usually low-ballers and cheapskates.
That's how the market works. Nothing you can do about it.
HTH,
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I often wonder what my 1971 D18 is worth. Unfortunately years ago I let someone talk me into shaving the bridge when it really needed a neck reset. Eventually it did get a neck reset covered my Martin warranty, frets replaced, leveled and crowned. Later I had to pay for a bridge replacement as there was not enough bridge to support the saddle. The original bridge cracked. The instrument is great now from a playability and intonation point of view. The replacement bridge came from Martin. I suspect there are not many playable Martins from that era that have not had a neck reset. Not sure if normal repairs are view differently than a modification from a price point of view. Originally Posted by LtKojak
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I loved the analogy to modding cars (fumblefingers). I had an early Karmin Ghia and a friend installed a Porsche clutch in it. It was a rocket off the line, until it reached about 25-30 mph, when it realized it had nothing left...
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I think the key with modding guitars is to ensure that any modifications are reversible should the time come where the guitar is to be sold. My Gretsch G400 for example has had a floating CC pickup fitted to it. I purchased a spare pickguard so that if I was to sell the guitar (highly unlikely) I can remove the pickup and modified pickguard and it will be back to stock, acoustic spec.
I've modified my two Gibson L6-Ss by fitting Bill Lawrence pickups to them. One has L90 humbuckers, and the other has L609 single coils (like a p90 with alnico rods, sort of). Again, that's all reversible, I have kept the stock pickups should I ever sell them.
I think that modding cheap guitars is something that has to be done with caution as far as resale is concerned. People tend to view them as a blank canvas for modding, and if the mods have been done already, it's no longer a blank canvas, so to speak.
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