Gibson Lee Ritenour Signature in acoustic setting?

**bananafist** · 07-18-2015, 07:06 AM

Been looking at a couple of these on ebay and a European online store. I'm wondering if it would work, in a quiet setting, purely acoustically. I play mainly in a trio, two guitars and doghouse bass. Bigger venues we plug into acoustic amps but some (UK folk-type clubs) are purely acoustic, (vocals too.) Currently I play a thinline DRL and the other guitarist plays an Eggle OM size guitar. We are older guys so dynamics and subtlety figure in our arrangements of standards. I've long hankered after an L5, but body size is a factor and I'm wondering if the LR Sig model would work in the setting, acoustically. No stores in the UK have this model currently, so I can't try one.
Any comments from those who've played these guitars much appreciated.
I've played the Peerless Martin Taylor models and they aren't strong enough acoustically for my needs.

**r_cc_c** · 07-18-2015, 12:15 PM

Here is some acoustic sound of L5 Lee.
Hard to tell if it is loud enough.
Sound good to me.

**fumblefingers** · 07-18-2015, 01:30 PM

Not very loud

**Bluedawg** · 07-18-2015, 01:42 PM

If my Heritage Sweet 16 is anything to go by .... and maybe it isn't

If your just pounding out chords for rhythm it may do the job

For single note leads .... it would probably be fine for jamming with some buddies ... but probably not loud enough for a small coffee shop, much less a restaurant with people talking and clanking their silverware on their plates

**fumblefingers** · 07-18-2015, 01:58 PM

I would either get an oval hole or 17 inch that is designed to be played unplugged. Like an L7. But that's just me.

**Stringswinger** · 07-18-2015, 03:37 PM

Gibson has not made an acoustic archtop loud enough for this application since the 50's. And even those would be barely adaquate for lead playing.

A good Gypsy guitar would work better, a resonator would work best of all.

**Danny W.** · 07-18-2015, 07:38 PM

Had a nice monsoon yesterday, lots of lightning close by, so I was playing my L-5 Lee Rit acoustically and it sounded very nice--in my living room! It's got a well-balanced sound, but the pickup is there for a good reason.

Mine is strung with .012" T-I Benson rounds. I'm sure a set of brass or bronze strings would make it louder, but I would want something louder still for an acoustic gig.

Danny W.

**fumblefingers** · 07-18-2015, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

Gibson has not made an acoustic archtop loud enough for this application since the 50's. And even those would be barely adaquate for lead playing.

A good Gypsy guitar would work better, a resonator would work best of all.

for volume, no doubt. But then you have to put up with that tone. Raspy, tinny, are words that come to mind.

**Spook410** · 07-18-2015, 07:45 PM

I like oval holes for unplugged though I would like to try a 30's L5 copy. The tone of the L5 in the recording is nice but may be a bit on the soft side.

**Stringswinger** · 07-19-2015, 12:02 AM

Fumblefingers wrote: "for volume, no doubt. But then you have to put up with that tone. Raspy, tinny, are words that come to mind."

With Resonator guitars no doubt. And cheap Gypsy guitars as well. If you think all Gypsy guitars are raspy and/or tinny, you have not played or heard a good one...

My 1993 Dupont MD-20 rivals my vintage D'Angelicos for good tone.

**jads57** · 07-19-2015, 01:52 AM

Danny W. has quite a nice collection of newer Gibson Archtops including the Lee Ritenour L-5 model. So I would defer to his expertise on this matter. But from my small time playing one, I would say it's not loud enough. I believe the intention of the guitar is to have the acoustic properties of the larger L-5C but be smaller to reduce feedback in louder settings were the normal L-5C would not be able to work. The nice thing is it not only acheives it's main purpose but it's a joy to play the smaller body as well!

**fumblefingers** · 07-19-2015, 02:54 AM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

Fumblefingers wrote: "for volume, no doubt. But then you have to put up with that tone. Raspy, tinny, are words that come to mind."

With Resonator guitars no doubt. And cheap Gypsy guitars as well. If you think all Gypsy guitars are raspy and/or tinny, you have not played or heard a good one...

My 1993 Dupont MD-20 rivals my vintage D'Angelicos for good tone.

would welcome hearing one some time.

**fumblefingers** · 07-19-2015, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by jads57

Danny W. has quite a nice collection of newer Gibson Archtops including the Lee Ritenour L-5 model. So I would defer to his expertise on this matter. But from my small time playing one, I would say it's not loud enough. I believe the intention of the guitar is to have the acoustic properties of the larger L-5C but be smaller to reduce feedback in louder settings were the normal L-5C would not be able to work. The nice thing is it not only acheives it's main purpose but it's a joy to play the smaller body as well!

ive had some of the same models as Danny, just not as many!!! Lol

anyway, I had a beautiful Lee Rit for about two years then traded it in for my first Legrand. It did not sound like a 17 inch Gibson L5CES, Legrand, or Citation, all of which I've owned and/or still do.

**Frank67** · 07-19-2015, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

would welcome hearing one some time.

not that my playing is any good, but here is an example of a good gypsy guitar (recorded with a clip on mic). I like the sound of these guitars and they are really loud. No flat or archtop will compete volumewise.

**bananafist** · 07-19-2015, 05:18 AM

Thanks for all the input guys. I perhaps should have explained, in the UK, in the smaller 'folk' and acoustic music type clubs that we play, it is a given that performers have a 'right to silence', and means that you can have 90 people in a large room and have total silence while performing. No talking, no glasses clinking, no shouting and laughing at the bar.
I know one or two American artists who've played this type of UK venue have commented on the un-nerving silence throughout their numbers and the huge applause at the end of a song. I guess its a Brit thing.

It sounds like the LR sig might work in this situation, it certainly sounds nice in that clip. A respected UK luthier has started building a 15" archtop, which looks promising, (no import duties or taxes,) so I'm following that with interest as well.

I have wondered about a gypsy jazz guitar, but the ones I've tried have been long scale,(26 1/2") set up with heavy strings and a highish action. All, sadly, no good for me due to some arthritis in my hands.

**Stringswinger** · 07-19-2015, 09:51 AM

@fumblefingers

(I believe Django used a Selmer guitar for this recording.

@bananafist

Gypsy guitars come in both 25.5 and 26.5 scale length. They should have very light strings on them and while some players in the Gypsy Jazz genre use a highish action, they can work just fine with a low action.

**SierraTango** · 07-19-2015, 11:18 AM

For the coin you would drop on a Rit L-5, it would seem to me that you would have several options. If it were me, I'd go in search of a Epi Deluxe, Broadway, Triumph from the '30's to the 50's. Or a equivalent Gibson .i.e. L-7 as already mentioned. The non-cut models seem to fetch much less and in my experience can be quite loud acoustically with the right setup. However, it may be a challenge to find the right one. I had a 1949 Epi Triumph Cutaway (that's what the label said-pre "Regent" and documented) that was quite loud. One caveat:most if not all of these were constructed using hide glue, and over time binding shrinkage is common. I'm a huge fan of old Epi non cuts and it may be a tool that would work in that setting.
Then, with the leftover funds, I'd go in search of a Dupont as SS recommends. I have a Manouche Latcho Drom that I gig with at a Basque social club. It can be a rowdy crowd. The violinist I work with on that gig just plays into a mic, the 'Drom has a Bigtone pickup. As many have mentioned, the Bigtone can be a bit quacky and harsh with out a eq/preamp in front of the amp, I use a LR Baggs Para EQ. But the truth of the matter is-I usually don't bother with the Bigtone. The Drom covers fine without it unless the crowd is way rowdy.
And I don't get the "heavy gauge strings" and "high action" comment. I use Argentine 11's and what's considered medium action on GJG's and it's very comfortable for a several hour gig. I would say that the "D" hole type GJG is usually louder to my ears, where the oval hole is more cutting. That's just me though.

**SierraTango** · 07-19-2015, 11:37 AM

1941 Epiphone Broadway

I'd probably be looking at this pretty carefully if I was banana. Lovely!

**floatingpickup** · 07-19-2015, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

Fumblefingers wrote: "for volume, no doubt. But then you have to put up with that tone. Raspy, tinny, are words that come to mind."

With Resonator guitars no doubt. And cheap Gypsy guitars as well. If you think all Gypsy guitars are raspy and/or tinny, you have not played or heard a good one...

My 1993 Dupont MD-20 rivals my vintage D'Angelicos for good tone.

I agree with Stringswinger. I have a Dupont MD-50 and I also owned 1939 D'Angelico Style B for many years. The sound of my Dupont rivaled my DA as well. In fact, the Dupont sounds great compared to all my acoustic archtops and it's a joy to play. I was never able to use the DA acoustically on a gig, but the Dupont will often work in that situation.
Keith

**jads57** · 07-19-2015, 05:09 PM

I would go w/ the largest acoustic archtop you can handle or even a Martin D-18 or Gibson J-200 if I wasn't miked!

**Hammertone** · 07-19-2015, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

Gibson has not made an acoustic archtop loud enough for this application since the 50's. And even those would be barely adaquate for lead playing.
A good Gypsy guitar would work better, a resonator would work best of all.

While they certainly have not made many of these guitars, I think Gibson has tipped its hat to purely acoustic acoustic archtops in the new millenium with the Bozeman-made L-7C (17") as well as the reissue of the pre-Advanced L-5 (16"). I have played several of the L-7C models and they are excellent instruments IMO (and I took Victor Kiam's advice on one), well suited for this application. I have not had the pleasure of playing one of the pre-Advanced L-5 reissue guitars - perhaps someone who has played one can comment on its volume and tonal characteristics.

**Stringswinger** · 07-19-2015, 07:39 PM

I have played both the 16 inch L-5 reissue and the Montana made L7reissue. IMO, both had excellent tone, neither had the volume that I expect from a vintage acoustic archtop.

**Woody Sound** · 07-20-2015, 11:52 AM

Yunzhi makes nice smaller body (15") acoustic archtops.

**bananafist** · 07-22-2015, 06:38 AM

I would love a full size L5 or prewar Epi, but neck and shoulder problems make 17" 3"+ deep guitars unmanageable for me. I'll have to check out some better quality gypsy guitars - if lighter strings and softer action works with these. As I said, the only ones I've tried have had heavy strings and a high action.
Royal Gypsy Jazz guitars are built not far from where I live, so I'll check them out. The guy who builds Rialto guitars here in the UK has started building a 15" archtop model, so I'll have to look at that too.
Thanks for the further comments.