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I have been fascinated by Nigel Forster's archtop designs. If you don't know, he builds a neck with the strings anchored at the end, kind of like a neck-thru electric bass, and then attaches the neck to an acoustic body. The neck touches the top via a bridge
NK Forster Guitars Instruments - NK Forster Guitars
I decided to try and build one. Note: I've made a number of solid body guitars and basses but have never made an acoustic guitar of any kind. I decided to use stuff I had on hand, which was mostly some old cherry boards an ebony fingerboard blank, and a spruce archtop blank I started on a decade ago but never finished. I got neck wood from the Home Depot maple bin.
The cherry was easy to bend. Although I have benedetto's book, I was pretty much making it up as I went along, and the archtop carve was pretty much just a guess. i did a lot of tapping and shaping, but really, I had no idea what I was looking for.
The neck mounts to the body via a tapered pad. It's attached using machine screws and threaded inserts
The strings are anchored via pins in the end of the neck--not nearly as elegant as Forster's solution
I just winged it on the neck angle. I retrospect, I might have made it a tad more shallow
The headstock was a spontaneous decision and if I make another I'll do something more traditional
So how does it sound? I don't have a pickup for it yet--it might come tomorrow. But I did a quick acoustic recorded comparison between the forster style guitar and my 1978 Guild Artist Award, which is a full size all bling 16 inch archtop
Both were recorded with the same Shure SM44 at three feet away, with some reverb added. Both had Thomastik flats, although the set on the Forster style was brand new and the set on the guild was months old.
http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/magic/guild.mp3
http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/magic/forster style.mp3
First song is with a pick, second with fingers. Forster-style guitar has not been intonated accurately yet. I think it sounds pretty good for a guy who was blundering and cursing his way through a novel process. I would love to hear what Forster's guitars sound like
I think Forster is really onto something good.Last edited by PB+J; 06-24-2015 at 02:28 PM.
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06-24-2015 02:08 PM
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I haven't tried Forsters guitars, but I have to say I'm impressed with your build and the guitars sound - well done! I think I wouldn't have been nearly so successful. Woodwork was never my forte. Is it heavy?
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Also Mr. Forster must have some reservations about this. I really did not know what I was doing on this and blundered my way by looking at pictures of his guitars and reading Benedetto's book. This guitar should not be taken as an example of the full potential of Forster's idea
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Thank you! I think there was a good deal of dumb luck involved, but I'll take it!
Originally Posted by bananafist
How far is Newcastle Upon Tyne from you? I'd consider a trip just to try one of these
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Newcastle-Upon-Tyne? I used to live there over half a century ago (aged 9). Now I'm over 70, its a long drive in UK terms - 400 miles-ish. And our roads aren't straight!
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Looks great, sounds great. I salute you sir, for your courage and tenacity! Well done!
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Kudos for trying out such an unconventional build! Looks and sounds great, definitely update us when you've installed the pickup. It barks very nicely with the pick but responds well to finger style too (Yes or No).
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just curious why the top is so thick if it's not weight/tension bearing?
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Because I'm a novice and don't know what I'm doing?
Following Benedetto's advice I didn't want to make it too thin rather than too thick.
I played it for awhile "in the white," so I'd have a chance to thin it down, but I liked the way it sounded
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i see. I would think that with only the neck taking the tension from the strings, you would be free to make the top very thin with minimal bracing to maximize the acoustic tone without having to worry about the top needing to support the bridge, pickups, etc.
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Yes and i would love to see an experienced luthier try this. What stopped me was Benedetto saying (this is a paraphrase) "novice builders will often imagine that making the top thinner will improve the sound. Nothing could be further from the truth." Also Forster at one point describes getting a better sound from a "heavier" guitar. The two together , plus my own tests, led me to leave it thicker. The braces are pretty slight. But if I make another one I'll make the top thinner
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Are you able to adjust the down force at the bridge with a wedge or by some other means? A standard archtop with a medium gauge set of strings has anywhere from 30 to 45 lbs. or more of down force on the bridge. If you could measure the down force at the bridge that might indicate how stiff the top should be carved for best response. Just a thought.
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Matt Cushman I can adjust it somewhat by moving the bridge and tightening or loosening one of the bolts. I don't have a way to measure the force though.
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One way to roughly check the down force may be to use thumb pressure on the top near the bridge. I have strong thumbs and can exert about 30 lbs. with one thumb. Press down on a scale to check your thumb strength. You may be able to get some idea from flexing your top with your thumbs how much pressure the bridge exerts. If you decide to try this be careful and check it first with no bridge pressure. On one of my unstrung archtops, I can just slightly flex the top with one thumb. You say your top is not to thin so it may be able to take more than 30 or 40 lbs. Maybe you can alter the sound with pressure adjustments. Matt
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Originally Posted by jzucker
Also I wonder with this design if some of the traditional assumptions about sound v tension don't get upended by this design. Forster argues that the luthier's problem is always balancing the forces that want to destroy the guitar and in many cases eventually will--the pull of the strings, the down force on the top--against the need to vibrate freely.
In this design there is no string pull, and the down force can be minimized. So you'd think "make the top really thin," and maybe that's the right approach, I don't know. But I was impressed how much sound I got out of this thickly carved/lightly braced top. Again I'm a complete novice at this.
For what it's worth the back is pretty thinly carved
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Ok last from me on this, a short clip of the Forster style with a magnetic pickup, recorded direct into the computer with a little reverb--no amp. The pickup is a Lace UltraSlim Acoustic sensor
http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/magic/archpickup.mp3Last edited by PB+J; 06-25-2015 at 02:19 PM.
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I enjoyed both the sounds and the playing and if it sounds like this direct into a computer, it's gonna sound wonderful through an amp.
Very sweet, congrats!
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Thank you kindly! I did have time to do one more fragment of a clip through a ZT Amps Lunchbox
http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/magic/archamp.mp3
My daughter came running up as I was getting into it and so I just stopped, but you get an idea of the sound.
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How loud is it compared to a traditionally built archtop? The sound quality is excellent, by the way. I would never have guessed that it was a departure from the norm.
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Hard for me to answer this. From where I sit playing it it seems quieter than my guild, but in front of a mic the difference seems pretty slight. The Guild is a 16 inch full depth guitar, my forster copy is 15 inches and a little more shallow. I'd say it's a little more quiet, but I'd like to have somebody else play it so I can hear it. I'm wondering what it would sound like with a second soundhole, or a soundhole on the bass side. Originally Posted by Klatu
My assumption when I started was that I'd get some acoustic sound but not much: I was surprised by how much I got even with a very thick top
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Very interesting stuff! I guess the principal is not too far removed from the Sitar/gourd principal which I believe inspired Nigel F on a visit to India. It does seem there really is nothing new under the sun.
Nigel F has a pre-owned archtop for sale on his site, but don't know how much.
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