Gibson ES-165 versus ES-175 VOS One Pickup

[stoneground]

This is just to show the tailpiece swap.

[stoneground]

It should be no surprise that the 59 VOS is somewhere in between a 125 and a more modern 165 or 175. The VOS is built like a 50s 175 and the 50s 175 was a natural progression in the laminated 16" Gibson line that was previously occupied by the 125. The modern 165s and 175s are again, another progression in the line.

I played a 59 VOS 175 back to back with a new 165 (floater) and bought the 175. To me the modern versions are more like Les Pauls, heavy and solely dependent on amplification for sound. Some say the modern 165/175 is a better electric guitar. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you're into. I would say the VOS 175 is a great electric guitar that maintains some of its acoustic properties.

I haven't ever tried a VOS 175 but wouldn't describe my 1995 165 as dead sounding at all which makes me wonder if the laminates/construction of the 165 changed during its period of production? Wikipedia implies that the laminates were the same as the VOS rather than Herb's 1953 model.
This guitar features a 24¾" scale neck with 20 frets, joined at the 14th fret. The width at the nut is 1 11/16 inches. The bound fingerboard is rosewood with parallelogram markers. The early variant of this guitar features what Gibson refers to as a "rounded Jazz profile". This would be somewhat thicker than the standard neck dimensions. This neck profile would be changed to the standard profile in 2004.
The body is fully hollow with two internal lateral braces. Like the ES-175, it measures 16" across the lower bout and 3½ inches deep at the outer rims. Unlike Herb's original 1953 ES-175, the top and back laminate material consist of a figured maple top followed by poplar and another maple laminate. The original model would have been made of plain maple/basswood/maple. Hardware includes a zigzag trapeze tailpiece and Tune-O-Matic bridge mounted on a rosewood base. While the Tune-O-Matic bridge is branded as a Gibson part, the zigzag tailpiece is not and is most likely not an American-made part. There have also been several reports of this tailpiece failing at the hinge. All models of ES-165 feature gold plated hardware including "Tulip" Grover tuners (branded either as Gibson or Grover).

[Broyale]

Dunno if anyone mentioned it, but the biggest difference would be that the VOS has solid sides.

[stoneground]

I agree that if so, this is certainly a major difference. However, The Gibson (2015) site refers to the model sides (Rims) as Maple/Poplar/Maple. Another site I just looked at (themusiczoo.com) also states that it has plywood sides. Who are we to believe?

[Broyale]

Actually, The Music Zoo states that it has solid maple rims
Gibson Custom Shop 1959 ES-175 VOS Electric Guitar Vintage Burst | The Music Zoo

Same here: Historic 1959 ES-175 VOS | Hollowbody/Semi-Hollowbody | Gibson Custom & Memphis | Electrics | Wildwood Guitars

Problem is, the single pickup custom shop VOS version with the solid rims is no longer on the Gibson site.

[SamBooka]

All this chatter about such beautiful guitars, and not a photo to be had anywhere...C'mon man...some of us learned to read by pictures you know!

[Herbie]

All this chatter about such beautiful guitars, and not a photo to be had anywhere...C'mon man...some of us learned to read by pictures you know!

Here it is, '59 VOS with VVG HCC pickup.

[stoneground]

Hi Broyale,

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't realise that the discontinued single pickup version had different rims from the 2015 offering. It's a shame it is no longer available as I always felt that the single pickup 175, especially in natural with nickel hardware, was aesthetically the most pleasing instrument I know. However, the discussion on this thread has been most informative for me as I will probably stop hankering after the 175 VOS reissue now that I have learnt that its electric sound might not be preferable to the 165, at least for my tastes.

[Broyale]

Hi Broyale,

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't realise that the discontinued single pickup version had different rims from the 2015 offering. It's a shame it is no longer available as I always felt that the single pickup 175, especially in natural with nickel hardware, was aesthetically the most pleasing instrument I know. However, the discussion on this thread has been most informative for me as I will probably stop hankering after the 175 VOS reissue now that I have learnt that its electric sound might not be preferable to the 165, at least for my tastes.

This was one of those threads I meant to make when I was searching for a 175. Hadn't realized Gibson "2015'ed" the 175 line.

[Falling_leaves]

I had both guitars, so I can share my experience. The 165 is the one with set Humbucker 1996 I think.

I had to decide between the two guitars because I wanted a Es175 in my collection.
The VOS weight was about 3Kilos the 165 is about 3,7Kilos. I loved the weight of the VOS.

The VOS sounded better and more lively than the 165 when played unamplified.
Amplified the 165 sounds way better. Darker and deeper and more gentle. Thats why I kept it and returned the VOS to shop.
The VOS sounded a bit harsh and sharp, nothing an EQ could not fix, but I rather have an Instrument with a smooth natural sound.
Another aspect ist the cost of the VOS: It is overpriced in my opinion.

The Tailpiece of the 165 broke once and I got a new one as replacement via a british music shop.

Since that day I am happy with the 165. Since I have my 165 I never looked back and the lusting for another Archtop has gone. I had many good and bad Archtop guitars (different Heritages, Eastman, Yamaha, Ibanez etc), but the 165 is the one I like the most.

Which year is your ES-165? From your words, you are saying the 490R sounds better than 57 Cls?

[Falling_leaves]

I'm just wondering about the 490R on ES-165, how much differ tone wise compared to the stock 57 classic pickup on ES-175?

[redwater]

Year is 1996, I wrote it in my post.

Are my english skills that bad? :-)
I did not say the 490R sounds better then classic57.
The guitar sounds just right for me, so there is no need to change anything.

[Falling_leaves]

Thanks for your reply.

Because you have made a comparison on the amplified sound between VOS and 165 and you preferred the Es-165, that's why I assumed 490r sound better.

[stoneground]

Which year is your ES-165? From your words, you are saying the 490R sounds better than 57 Cls?

This is a very subjective thing. There is lot written on the Gibson forums about the difference between these two pickups and I am not sure I agree with all the comments. When I changed my 490R in my 1995 165 it was not because it was a bad pickup, it just wasn't the sound I wanted which was the traditional dark, warm, mellow 175 sound. The 490r to my ears was a 'hotter' pickup probably more suited to brighter and overdriven tones which was fine for some situations but not for most of what I try and do. I understand that it was selected by Gibson as being closest to the PAF on Herb's original 175 which is interesting; that must have been a pretty bright sounding PAF!
I am very happy with the Classic 57 on my guitar.

[SamBooka]

I understand that it was selected by Gibson as being closest to the PAF on Herb's original 175 which is interesting; that must have been a pretty bright sounding PAF!
I am very happy with the Classic 57 on my guitar.

I had not heard that. I just assumed (yes.. I know) that they are using what was stock on most of their les pauls at the time.. just like the cheapass tail piece.

[Encinitastubes]

Does anyone know if Gibson used the laminate rosewood fingerboards on the VOS 175s. I have a 2013, but don't know i if there is a way to tell.