Got my Gibson L-5 Wes Montgomery today

[jzucker]

Sounds gorgeous, just like an L5 should. I have a local buyer for my heritage eagle classic so that one's out of here. It's interesting to compare them. Even though the wes has a single pickup and is much thicker than the heritage, the heritage has much more spruce to it's sound. The wes is actually closer to my '89 175 than a "true" carved archtop. I think that's what makes the L5 such an iconic sounding instrument. Over time, it has evolved to be more of an electric guitar whereas the heritage still sounds like an acoustic-designed instrument with a couple pickups. The L5 is a much heavier build and has more sustain, much like the 175. The heritage has a brighter sound with more acoustic tendencies and less sustain.

Playing them back to back it's a tough decision because for solo guitar playing the heritage has that sweet, acoustic spruce sound to it where as the L5 sounds more electric. However, for playing octaves, chord solos and single notes with the thumb the Wes just drips with vibe of it's namesake.

I thought about keeping them both but i'm going to do a layaway plan for a buddy of mine who's wanted one forever so it's going to a good home. I'll post some clips soon.

[Max405]

Jack, as usual, great post. When you record it, you will hear things about the guitar that you don't pickup when your playing it. I think the sustain makes it easier to play because you can let it sing while you create the music.
Good for you. I'm happy for you.
Joe D

[jzucker]

yes, I agree. I like to use a vibrato on sustained notes which is great on my 175, GB10 and L5. On the heritage and X500 it's tougher because they don't sustain as much.

[vinnyv1k]

Give me thick, creamy, thunky, with lots of sustain over bright and acoustic any day of the week but that is just me. Happy sounds to you Mr.Z.

[jzucker]

thanks vinny, looking forward to your reports after you get the Tal back.

[BigToe]

That's exactly what I found with my 2000 L5. Fantastic sound plugged in but not an acoustic instrument in the traditional sense. Although having said that I had great results blending the pickup/amp with a mic on the F hole when I wanted a more acoustic tone on a recording. Congrats on the purchase!

[Stringswinger]

Jack,

I have found that putting a wood bridge on my L-5 WESMO decreased the sustain and increased the acoustic sound, but in the end I liked the TOM sound better (sustain IS important), so the wooden bridge came off.

Congrats on the NGD

Cheers,

Marc

[Jonathan0996]

Congratulations, Jack. I always thought those guitars and THE quintessential jazz guitar sound. I know you'll put it to good use.

[BigMikeinNJ]

An old guitar tech of mine from Menlo Park talked at length to me about how the L-5s changed into guitars with much thicker tops, mostly to accommodate a double pickup configuration, even if it was an acoustic guitar with a floater or no pickup at all it had a thicker top. I think Heritage stuck more to carving away more wood in search of that sweet acoustic sound whereas Gibson was aiming to cut two holes into the majority of the tops they cranked out and would worry less about the top caving if it had a thicker top... Dave Tupper, amazing tech and true friend.

[Patrick2]

Zuck; That's pretty much a spot on assessment of two wonderful guitars. They're each as unique as they are comparable to one and other. While comparing them is fun . . and the discerning ear will definitely and easily detect the differences. Trying to classify them as comparable to each other is impossible, unless siting the exact differences that you have.

The good thing about the Wes, IMO, is that you'll still be able to capture and enjoy a great solo guitar chord melody tone and performance from it, even though maybe not quite to the level of a single pup Golden Eagle . . . mainly due to the single pup nature of the Wesmo. You ain't losing too much with the Wes.

[jzucker]

Jack,

I have found that putting a wood bridge on my L-5 WESMO decreased the sustain and increased the acoustic sound, but in the end I liked the TOM sound better (sustain IS important), so the wooden bridge came off.

Congrats on the NGD

Cheers,

Marc

I like the sound of the TOM. I'm considering putting one on my GB10.

An old guitar tech of mine from Menlo Park talked at length to me about how the L-5s changed into guitars with much thicker tops, mostly to accommodate a double pickup configuration, even if it was an acoustic guitar with a floater or no pickup at all it had a thicker top. I think Heritage stuck more to carving away more wood in search of that sweet acoustic sound whereas Gibson was aiming to cut two holes into the majority of the tops they cranked out and would worry less about the top caving if it had a thicker top... Dave Tupper, amazing tech and true friend.

Yes, I heard the same thing. Additional detail was that Gibson apparently had some issues with tops caving in and having to do warranty repairs so they thickened the top to avoid the repair issues. They did the same thing with the 175s.

Zuck; That's pretty much a spot on assessment of two wonderful guitars. They're each as unique as they are comparable to one and other. While comparing them is fun . . and the discerning ear will definitely and easily detect the differences. Trying to classify them as comparable to each other is impossible, unless siting the exact differences that you have.

The good thing about the Wes, IMO, is that you'll still be able to capture and enjoy a great solo guitar chord melody tone and performance from it, even though maybe not quite to the level of a single pup Golden Eagle . . . mainly due to the single pup nature of the Wesmo. You ain't losing too much with the Wes.

There's actually a big difference in acoustic quality between the two. The eagle has way more volume and resonance despite the thinner body and 2 pickups. I had a chance to pickup a single pickup version of the eagle for about $2k giving me both guitars for less money than the L5 so that was a hard choice but in the end, I just love the gibson sound and it's one of those cases where the "improvements" don't sound as good to me due to the tone I expect. Sort of like tubes vs SS "improvements".

[Bluedawg]

Give me thick, creamy, thunky, with lots of sustain over bright and acoustic any day of the week but that is just me. Happy sounds to you Mr.Z.

I think that is a great description of the tone choices ...

I have an L5 WES and an L5CES to cover the thick, creamy, thunky with lots of sustain ...

Over the years I also picked up a nice 175 and an L4CES that have their own great voices in this flavor



and when I want a more acoustic sound I have a Le Grand that covers that territory quite well and without too much brightness

I also have a Heritage Sweet 16 with a floater that delivers good acoustic tone ... it was my go to guitar for playing rhythm in a couple of swing bands ... unfortunately one swing band faded away due to the leaders health

and the other band replaced me with another guitar player when my job sent me away for 3 months ... but then they called me back to play bass .. so I've been using them as an excuse to work on my upright bass playing

[vinlander]

Congratulations, also looking forward a clip in which you will play nice octaves like you did with your former thin line Heritage playing Sunny

[NSJ]

The sustain on my 1962 L5C is incredible for a carved archtop. I tend to think of it as an acoustic archtop with a Johnny Smith mini HB floater added on.
I would imagine mine has a much better acoustic sound than modern ones. And with its excellent sustain, I don't think I'm missing much amplified.

I wonder how much this instrument has changed and morphed since 1962?

[jzucker]

Congratulations, also looking forward a clip in which you will play nice octaves like you did with your former thin line Heritage playing Sunny

I think the thinner guitar actually had a slightly more L5(ish) sound than my full size eagle because the thinner body didn't impart as much of an acoustic signature on the sound. Of course, heritage guitars are often customized so the top may have been thicker too.

[edit]

Octaves are not satisfying on my 175 so I haven't worked on them in a while but now I have an excuse to brush up on them and block chord playing.

[helios]

Congratulations NGD/L5 Wesmo day! How about a version of: "How Insensitive" to show off those fat sounding octaves, along with a few photos please! Jeff

[2bornot2bop]

Very happy for you Jack! More like this!

[jzucker]

thanks 2b, will do. Sorry for all the jazz-shredding clips that were posted recently. I'll get back to some other stuff soon.

[rio]

Congrats Jack! Could we sneak a peek at this new girl?

[jzucker]

will try to sneak some pix of it tomorrow during a photosession with a couple fashion models!

[jzucker]

so as luck would have it, I had gotten my '76 Guild X-500 refretted and got a chance to play it next to the L5. It compares very favorably. The setup on the L5 is really great and is about the same as on the X-500 which is saying a lot because the guy who did the refret does luthiery for George Benson and is one of the best. However, they both have super low and slinky action with no buzzing.

The L5 has a tad bit more sustain and has a thicker and more juicy tone but the X-500 sounds almost exactly like benson's tone on the body talk recording (without the fret rattle, lol)

The X-500 consequently gives up a bit of fatness but makes up for it with bensony goodness and very sweet trebles. It's hard to explain the brightness. It's not the same brightness as the heritage eagle. It's more of an upper mid sheen on the notes. Acoustically it sounds great too. Truth be told, if I had gotten the X-500 back a week earlier I might not have bought the L5. I was originally going to sell the X-500 after the refret but now I'm not so sure. It has an old guitar vibe to it that's pretty damn cool.

[2bornot2bop]

so as luck would have it, I had gotten my '76 Guild X-500 refretted and got a chance to play it next to the L5. It compares very favorably. The setup on the L5 is really great and is about the same as on the X-500 which is saying a lot because the guy who did the refret does luthiery for George Benson and is one of the best. However, they both have super low and slinky action with no buzzing.

The L5 has a tad bit more sustain and has a thicker and more juicy tone but the X-500 sounds almost exactly like benson's tone on the body talk recording (without the fret rattle, lol)

The X-500 consequently gives up a bit of fatness but makes up for it with bensony goodness and very sweet trebles. It's hard to explain the brightness. It's not the same brightness as the heritage eagle. It's more of an upper mid sheen on the notes. Acoustically it sounds great too. Truth be told, if I had gotten the X-500 back a week earlier I might not have bought the L5. I was originally going to sell the X-500 after the refret but now I'm not so sure. It has an old guitar vibe to it that's pretty damn cool.

No way, don't sell it. After all '76 was the year of the bicentennial and Bensons groundbreaking Breezin LP. I was in Philly then for both of 'em. I've still got that album.

Body Talk! Now that was one of my all time favorite Benson CTI recordings. Okay, I still have it on album too! But I'm not old.

[Stringswinger]

Guild was making great guitars all through the 70's. They were (up until the closing of the Westerly RI plant, at least) the successor in spirit to the old Epiphone Company (Guild was born out of the ashes of the NY Epis) and their jazz guitars are second to none.

I say keep both guitars. With a great 175, a great L-5 and a great vintage Guild archtop, your straight ahead jazz needs are well filled.

[jzucker]

i also have a GB10 for an archtop. It works nice for louder gigs. Been playing the guild all morning trying to decide if it's a keeper, lol.

[jzucker]

Not good lighting for this type of guitar but this is what we had for the model shoot.